Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future (now!)

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Michael Elvin <marimike6@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future (now!)
  • Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 13:21:45 +0000 (UTC)

Vaidila, your comment is very provocative:
"Figure out a better solution," says the mind, forgetting
that there are no problems in the natural world and thereby making
conflict. Our culture--Me and You--are too materialistic because we give
too much of ourselves to thought--the most prevalent form dominating every
human being. The natural world doesn't think--it's in harmony with itself.
In this sense the natural world operates as a perfect invisible structure.

This is an elegant way of putting it. The world is what it is... and tomorrow
it will be what it will be. But I think a problem arises from the collective
efforts of a great many people, who feel compelled to mess with it. They
perturb it from its natural course. Their aim is to control it-- to scrape it
clean, grade it level and pave it over-- so it can be used.
So my question is-- what to do about them? Wouldn't education be a part of
our task, in addition to self-realization?

On Tuesday, August 2, 2016 1:18 AM, Lawrence London
<lfljvenaura@gmail.com> wrote:


On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Vaidila Satvika <vaidila@gmail.com> wrote:

> P.S. The only sane vision of the future is now. Future only exists as a
> thought, based on the premise that tomorrow is better than today, leading
> to a perpetual craving that has led to the dysfunctional human state. And
> the mind cannot exit that problem, which is the most essential problem,
> because it itself is the barrier. And that realization is healing.
>

That is really something to ponder. When I got to the bottom of your PS I
thought about the Wheel of Life and how what you described
was something in motion, turning and cycling bringing  you back to the same
place each revolution to heal you. I have always wondered
if that was what the Tibetan prayer wheels were all about. A living
reminder of the cyclical nature of life, nothing changes, nothing stays the
same.
LL

--
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared
https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/116100117925365792988/+Avantgeared/posts
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/orangegrapevine
https://ello.co/lflondon <https://ello.co/permaculture>
https://ello.co/permaculture
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture



>From toby@patternliteracy.com Tue Aug 2 10:15:34 2016
Return-Path: <toby@patternliteracy.com>
X-Original-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 20217)
id C702B2031; Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:15:34 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
mailman1.ibiblio.org
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.7 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,
RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.1
Received: from mout.perfora.net (mout.perfora.net [74.208.4.197])
by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 081B866D
for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>;
Tue, 2 Aug 2016 10:15:33 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from [10.0.0.3] ([66.220.13.38]) by mrelay.perfora.net (mreueus003)
with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LsiHH-1b6YI93iHp-012Gnw for
<permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>; Tue, 02 Aug 2016 16:15:33 +0200
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\))
From: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
In-Reply-To: <20160801174244.10532.qmail@s424.sureserver.com>
Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2016 07:15:30 -0700
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Message-Id: <E5797B46-2671-48EB-80E7-2C66070CB082@patternliteracy.com>
References: <20160801174244.10532.qmail@s424.sureserver.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104)
X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:tn5KKzyLTn2F07Di1mL2F50T/gs12eFwTCbKfef16ba9SZI3XHS

QC6ISdfxn9fAOltwJrZxflH/Elt2W3IiX6gZ7GQWTpy9+H5LOj8amQkWO/rLRAV9M6oWe+G

YrUKQzj8B1j7Mh3z8G6PIhwbnmb100Sfdk8jjBaJ/LdAi5+p+YTOep8AH1hXIqTUyqShFC0
RgS/56i+2LyQGcY6wAmPg=X-UI-Out-Filterresults:
notjunk:1;V01:K0:YWDLs+LVYrc=:OdKyZv84m3WPCgtgbQSrnX

v6JozOC3BPV/CAZSNGyMXjuaIBRE97/P0BzNzrlchjtyMKtAdZ/8Z3lxyQfWOPXIIAmt6hS3t

Mli8apDUMmNCDuUlDIG7OdOy8y2HZWjpRB0SJALlLethsZL0bJv65tbIN3IiUt4BpFXr6RBqA

ny1gSyKEK0Mp4QwOr1pMWktbtNYkRS1x4mDnaaqJoxDwKmlTbRhoGcTJYm5oOj+5GF0ZsCqHD

9IOoXhLBQomXFAMQLoKtlSRAhhSwTimQkPfsFg4O6iKPxmeGxaQhi9MnZuLgCmcXDodNL1E9J

Sa9pa1KRcr6uYRJVhYxkbPnyLi4+eUXyGUbZYy65j+IsiQUmowMmqy6KbnCO9UTGpm594b2cI

tU23p9b8TX3LLucnPfxxASHJYMNSf6CA1le94xCCwIUpKmbjAgm+51kbSY8Wq+W9mfje+V77c

id9GETxxMucVT/+zssBPFi9kNhz/tFH69TAls7E5m7gAQ0JnXlm6plewwDKLxLdELB9bhuf/J

DvbDBlpdpPGypk1+bSKJ4NVVv/HsvMdsJMJ8RUwbAhj65jT7tUimd3wMNrVyXMJzyzjhA/jzY

ZUHViqwJLDcltRE9nstrLpypFEAWKyTxEhaCAV+JPuzVEVA2A3tTcstC4V5rahFhZ32gdYbTn

xEWymlTAnpHS+DO4luNGKjnCtsB+3CfnXphLKyiUpshcjdRZhILGIzvrgXJQeLGwerVQXKevX
HwZv+Q2ng3UreBq/
Subject: Re: [permaculture] [OT] My Vision of the Future
X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20
Precedence: list
List-Id: permaculture <permaculture.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/permaculture>,
<mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/>
List-Post: <mailto:permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
<mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Aug 2016 14:15:34 -0000

More and more I find myself teaching PDCs in which the visible structures are
“merely” ways of manifesting and executing the invisible structures. The
design of the invisible structures are guided by the ethics. We’re easily
sucked into a fascination with technique and tools, so we need to constantly
pull back to remember what we are using those tools for. We’re building a
culture grounded in love and abundance, in something bigger than just our
desires.

Once you know the qualities of the culture you want to live in, permaculture
design makes it pretty easy to find the tools and techniques for building
that culture. And getting clear about what those qualities are is where
spiritual practice (or whatever you want to call the connection to the higher
self) meets permaculture.

So, Scott: I eagerly await The Dharma of Permaculture. Seems like a lot of
people are getting that we need to evolve spiritually very fast. I’ve gotten
whacked over the head with that message this past year.

Toby
tobyhemenway.com

Just out: my new book on urban permaculture, The Permaculture City. Order it
at your favorite bookseller or get a signed copy from me at
http://tobyhemenway.com/book/the-permaculture-city/

> On Aug 1, 2016, at 10:42 AM, scott@permaculture.org wrote:
>
> I personally think that a separate group for this would attract little
> attention and soon die. To this mix is a good solution, in spite of some
> pleople signing off ever now and then. -- Georg Parlow
>
> Therein lies the problem, Georg. I have been teaching permaculture for the
> past 30+ years and for half of that time I have been insisting on the
> importance of invisible structures. Mollison taught that visible
> structures were those that showed us "what" to do and invisible structures
> taught us "how" to do it. Without the how too we are just an encyclopedia
> of techniques and methods of dealing with the material world. Once we dig
> deep into the invisible structures we find we are able to dance around the
> legal, financial, and social structures that are the primary impediments to
> realizing our dreams.
>
> I also include permaculture ethics in the invisible structures though they
> are mostly poorly taught in the Permaculture Design Course by many teachers
> who are not engaged in the ethics themselves. Care of the Earth, Care of
> People and Return all excess yield to the Care of the Earth and People
> sounds simple enough but if one truly applies ones thoughts to deeply
> understanding these three ethics it leads us deeper into the realm of the
> unknown. I, personally, think that "Care" should be replaced with the word
> "Love" to get the deeper significance of these ethics.
>
> I have been living on a yoga ashram for the past year seeking a deeper
> understanding of the invisible and have been humbled by my ignorance of the
> necessity to understand consciousness. Physicists, philosophers,
> theologians, and gurus of all stripes have sought to understand
> consciousness and the deep appeal of materialism for hundreds of years but
> few have actually reached that pinnacle of understanding. After a year of
> sitting on a zafu in meditation twice a day, 7 days a week find myself no
> closer to understanding anything except that I know that there is an answer
> and that meditation, prayer, contemplation, and altered states are all
> methods that are directed at self realization. It is a difficult process
> to overcome the incessant chatter of the mind whose primary purpose in life
> is to keep us tethered to the material plane.
>
> We no longer have the Wisdom Schools of the past to provide us with direct
> knowledge of this process. We have become so embedded in the materialistic
> plane that we all are narcissists to a greater or lesser degree. We
> currently have a candidate for president of the USA who is the ultimate
> narcissist, while the other candidate is a narcissist in denial. Our
> hunger for stuff/things has led to the destruction of our biosphere and to
> wars to steal the stuff from other cultures and places. We are engaged in
> the final spasms of destroying ourselves and the planet to feed an
> insatiable appetite for something to fill the void in our existence. As
> permaculture designers it is incumbent upon us to find our way back to the
> garden.
>
> When I haven't been meditating I have been trying to write a book titled
> "Dharma of Permaculture". Dharma being the law of the cosmos as it is
> reflected in us. This was what the ten commandments were attempting, and
> the beatitudes of Jesus Christ was trying to articulate. Buddha, Lao Tsu,
> Mohammed, Yogis, and other avatars throughout the ages have sought to
> articulate humans role in creation and have offered rules of behavior to
> guide us to that understanding.
>
> I believe that permaculture ethics are an outline of how humans should
> survive and that the "natural principals" show us the dharma of the natural
> world around us. It has been through permaculture that I have slowly come
> to realize that I am here to caretake or husband this incredible creation
> that we no longer recognize the beauty and stunning intelligence of.
>
> I would love for other to join me in seeking better solutions to life than
> the ones we currently worship.
>>
>
>>









Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page