Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Trojan Horses and Permaculture

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Trojan Horses and Permaculture
  • Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2013 10:45:54 -0600

Yes, Lawrence, wonderful hiking in the Indian Peaks Wilderness outside of
Boulder. One of the best gourmet mushrooming areas in the country (did I
really just give that up? oh well, my spots are well off the beaten path).

Have a joyful day,
Jason


On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 10:02 AM, Jason Gerhardt
<jasongerhardt@gmail.com>wrote:

> Lawrence,
> My comment is clearly out of context on this listserv, which is why I said
> it is somewhat futile. You misinterpreted my points without the context of
> PRI site and my history disagreeing with them. I agree with everything you
> said, and all my comments come in relation to the other comments on PRI. No
> need to go there and get sucked in. I fell for that trap enough. I love
> hippies and Bill Mollison, and everyone, yourself included. Just trying to
> jolt some minds over there to see things a slightly different way. That was
> probably futile too.
> Jason
>
>
> On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:51 AM, Jason Gerhardt
> <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Toby's new article was posted on PRI's website, I tried to comment, but
>> am guessing I have been censored since I didn't bow down to Geoff Lawton.
>> Just trying to have my comment heard, somewhat futile to post it here, but
>> in case anyone is interested. It might seem out of context without reading
>> the comments on PRI. Craig Mckintosh (PRI editor) if you are reading, maybe
>> you can tell me what happened to my comment, and if I am wrong in my
>> assumption I apologize in advance.
>>
>> ---
>> Geoff I am so surprised you would claim that the PDM is basically a
>> flawless toolkit that can be applied wholesale. You should research the
>> numerous errors in that text (I’m aware that a lot of what is in there
>> works too)? I absolutely love Bill Mollison (and PDM) and respect your
>> teaching a ton, but what good does it do to insist that something with so
>> many flaws is perfect? This book is a main reason, in my conversations with
>> agro-ecologists, why scientists discount permaculture as phony science.
>>
>> It’s not actually the hippy memes that are discrediting permaculture for
>> a lot of people; for a ton of people it was Bill Mollison himself.
>> Sustainable/Organic agriculture conferences are full of obvious hippy
>> types, and they are often the ones paid to speak! Scientists abound in
>> these conferences as well, and they all listen to and learn from each other
>> (gasp!).
>>
>> The Permaculture I know and have worked in for the last 10 years embraces
>> all the contributions that people have made to the field, not just blindly
>> following Mollison. Mollison is a genius, obviously, but the founders of
>> new fields are often eccentric and prone to exaggeration, so there is no
>> need to accept his words as the holy gospel.
>>
>> How I read Toby's article is that we need strategies, recipes, etc, that
>> can lure people beyond the following-the-steps-approach and become pattern
>> literate critical thinkers. If all we ever do is follow the recipes of PDM
>> and others, we miss our chance to develop new ways of doing things (and
>> will make a ton of errors in the process). Basically the PDM has taken the
>> work of tons of pattern literate critical thinkers and put it into a manual
>> (I will hesitate to call it a recipe book). Yes, a lot of it works and is
>> sheer brilliance, and we should replicate that, but we should also be
>> encouraging the development of new ideas and thinking in our students
>> rather than just telling them what to do. It’s the old adage ‘don’t just
>> tell me WHAT to think, teach me HOW to think’.
>>
>> Lastly, permaculture obviously means a lot of different things to
>> different people. I no longer hope we can agree on what the term actually
>> means. We have to remember that Permaculture is not the goal, it too is a
>> Trojan horse. The goal is to make our actions have positive effects on
>> ecosystems and to make such action and skills a regular/normalized aspect
>> of human culture. Permaculture is a finger pointing to the moon. If you get
>> stuck looking at the finger, you miss the whole point.
>> --
>> Jason Gerhardt
>>
>> PO Box 4355
>> Boulder, CO 80306
>> 720-496-9744
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> PO Box 4355
> Boulder, CO 80306
> 720-496-9744
>



--

PO Box 4355
Boulder, CO 80306
720-496-9744




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page