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  • From: Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 AT comcast.net>
  • To: WikiWorld <wikiworld AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [Wiki World] Let's open the list :)
  • Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 22:00:32 -0400

Title: Re: [Wiki World] Let's open the list :)
on 8/31/07 9:28 PM, fredbaud AT waterwiki.info at fredbaud AT waterwiki.info wrote:

Well, are you familiar with Wilfred Bion's Experiences in Groups? Fight or Flight, etc.?

Fred

Oh yes, the Tavistock Group. I have done quite a bit of work with persons suffering from PTSD. In addition to individual work, I also have them work in groups. Some of these persons have gone on to help with a crisis intervention team I direct which responds to such events as shootings, mine accidents and other such traumatic events. There is healing in helping.

Myself, I worked with Carl Rogers in the 60s at the "Institute for the Study of the Person" in California.

As for "fight or flight"; if you're referring to the Wikien-l List - I very probably will choose the fight. Besides I'm getting old - I don't 'flight' very fast anymore :-)

Marc



-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Riddell [mailto:michaeldavid86 AT comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 09:09 PM
To: 'WikiWorld'
Subject: Re: [Wiki World] Let's open the list :)

on 8/31/07 7:19 PM, fredbaud AT waterwiki.info at fredbaud AT waterwiki.info wrote:

Wikipedia's mailing lists used to be much more friendly and useful. Now, more than half the post are by clueless folks who just want to argue. Only a few people from the old days still monitor the lists and I regularly delete entire topics and most posts by certain editors.

The lists are unmoderated and there is a lot of low level noise not directed towards moving the project forward. I don't know any way we can recreate the old days which it was all new, shiny and fresh.

Fred

I agree with you, Fred. In the short six months or so that I have been contributing to the Wikien-l List I have seen a steady decline in fairness, civility and just plain listening; and the steady rise of influence by a few Members with clear agendas of their own. And, none of these agendas include advancing the Project - only their position in it. What "moderation" that does take place is done with a clear double standard. I deal with socially dysfunctional persons as a profession, all day, everyday. At times the List reads to me like a written transcript of a group therapy session, with one or two members jockeying for position as leader.

What troubles me most are the other voices that break through every once in a while, wanting to offer input they feel would be healthy for the Project, but are quickly put down by patronizing, intimidating comments from these others. This pisses me off.

I have thought several time of proposing this "communication sandbox" on the Wikien-l list. But, I've hesitated each time because what I am proposing - empowering people on the List - would clearly be seen as a threat by the dominant voices right now. And, frankly, I'm not in the mood, nor really have the time, for the battle I know would ensue. I would rather take my ideas to another Project that may be looking for help, and much more open to it.

That is why I said in my message to Milos that I would like to see the core of my idea  be applied to all internet communities that involve interpersonal communication among its members.

I am a complete novice when it comes to the workings of the internet; and, at times, I'm not even sure I'm using the correct language when I refer to its various components. I could also use some help with this.

Thank you for you input. I would like to pick your brain about the possibilities of such a communication project in the larger internet.

Right now, I'm eating my daily ration of H├Ągen-Daz (Mayan Chocolate) and watching DVD reruns of "The West Wing".

Be healthy,

Marc

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Marc Riddell [mailto:michaeldavid86 AT comcast.net]
>Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 11:43 AM
>To: 'WikiWorld'
>Subject: Re: [Wiki World] Let's open the list :)
>
>on 8/31/07 9:44 AM, Brianna Laugher at brianna.laugher AT gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> So as far as I see it this list can have a few purposes...
>> - tech discussion about different wiki engines, different ways they
>> implement things
>
>Being the computer-challenged person that I am, I'm going to depend on the
>rest of you to mentor me through that part.
>
>> - social discussion about different practices of managing communities
>> (how to put the B in BDFL)
>
>Here, you're talking my language! I am very interested in the cultural
>aspects of a wiki community. Most especially, how persons relate to - and
>communicate with - each other.
>
>My only experience with the wiki medium is with Wikipedia; namely its Talk
>Pages and Mailing List (Wikien-l). In them I find a great deal of hostility,
>miscommunication, defensiveness, bullying, and a tone I can only describe as
>mean. As a result, many persons with something important to say, but without
>the skills to combat the noise, are being intimidated - and are not being
>heard.
>
>To present to this problem, I have formed some very basic ideas about
>something I am calling (to myself, right now) a "communication sandbox".
>This would be a site or list, or whatever, where persons could go to
>practice and sharpen their communication skills. The subjects could be
>anything from social and political issues, to their own experiences with
>communication. This list (or whatever) would be monitored by empathic
>persons with good interpersonal and communication skills of their own, who
>would offer advice and counseling on how the participants could better get
>their messages across, what to avoid, and how to deal with personal attacks
>and other intimidating behaviors. The List would not be archived.
>
>As you can see, most of this is me thinking out loud right now. I would love
>some feedback.
>
>Glad to be a part of this,
>
>Marc Riddell
>
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>wikiworld AT lists.ibiblio.org
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