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typicalgirls - Re: [TypicalGirls] Riot Grrrl: genre vs. musical-political ethos

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Subject: Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)

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  • From: Kelli Miller <kelli AT goodgrrrldesign.com>
  • To: mike AT appelstein.com, "Typical Girls: Women in Punk/Post-Punk/Underground Music (Circa 1975-1980s)" <typicalgirls AT lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [TypicalGirls] Riot Grrrl: genre vs. musical-political ethos
  • Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 22:38:03 -0400

Good point about about the delivery of the music changing. Of course it will never be the same exactly but that's what keeps it interesting. And maybe this new crop isn't always challenging the music formally but they are definitely re-defining how we find it and listen to it. I always thought that the distribution and community surrounding early punk was one of the most inspiring aspects of it all. This is just a new way of exploring that.

Also, lots of DIY venues and shows ARE still happening, probably much in the same fashion as previous decades. I mean in Brooklyn, it's rampant. And I've felt, being at these shows lately, a REAL sadness and sense of lose of that riot grrrl, post-riot grrrl world. I remember going to shows and just feeling an overwhelming sense of belonging and equality that was so special. Now it seems the bands here are mostly dudes and the girls are usually hanging out in the back again. Obviously, not every show but several I've been to have reverted back to those standards. The crowds may be less violent but the segregation seems apparent. So, that said I am so extremely excited and happy to see that riot grrrl has entered the cultural cycle of resurgence that seems to happen every 10-15 years. I think that alone says a lot about it's significance in music and culture.

Good conversation! Thanks for the new bands to check out too!

KM


On Sep 13, 2007, at 9:59 PM, Mike Appelstein wrote:

Not to change subjects too dramatically, but one thing Tobi said really
relates to this very list:

<<it is no coincidence that bands that are associated with typical girls
were not taken seriously as part of the punk/post punk canon until after
riot grrl happened. we used to right down a list of these bands for every
girl we met who was wanting more. we'd go here: go find records by these
bands: 1. raincoats. 2. slits 3. delta 5 etc.>>

I've probably said this before, but I was a college DJ in the mid to late
1980s. This was not a golden age of gender equality in music, nor were
indie listeners' ears quite as tuned to enthusiastic amateurism or, heck, a
female band member who wasn't just a vocalist or keyboard player. I'd play
the Raincoats, Delta 5, Scrawl*, Talulah Gosh and early K (including Tobi's
various bands), and people would call up, actually angry! I got a rep as
"the DJ who plays all the girl bands," which wasn't really true.

Riot grrrl changed the game completely. It was often ridiculed and
misunderstood when it first appeared in 1991 - even I said some really
thoughtless things, which I've never stopped regretting even 15 years later.
But within a few years, it was suddenly no longer a big deal to have men and
women the same band sharing songwriting/performing duties equally, or to
literally be learning how to play onstage. And all of a sudden progenitors
like the Slits and the Raincoats were being taken a lot more seriously.
Personally, I think riot grrrl got *really* good a couple of years into it,
when Huggy Bear and Skinned Teen began creating amazing, cacophonous
recordings that still kept a sense of ragged melody - I heard lots of
LiLiPut and Kleenex in both of them, whether intentionally or not. Now
there are 19-year-old kids who know way more about post-punk than I ever
did, a la "Losing My Edge." That's fine. It's great to discover things I
didn't or couldn't find the first time.

And it all happened without the Internet. I wonder if there will ever be
another DIY musical movement like riot grrrl or early punk. Perhaps the
Internet, and especially Etsy, YouTube and Flickr, have mainstreamed DIY to
the point where a "revolution" couldn't happen the same way. A refinement,
maybe?

-Mike


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