permaculture

["Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>]

Thanks for the tip Joel, I haven't read it and will order it if it does a 
better job of defining "orders" that I found so far.  Does it?

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: permaculture [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf 
Of Joel Glanzberg
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 8:46 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] QUESTIONS .. of corruption etc etc

Scott have you seen Barry Lopez's book Home Ground?
http://www.amazon.com/Home-Ground-Guide-American-Landscape/dp/1595341757
All about some of what you are asking about...a lexicon defining all of the
words you cited and more, by many autors.

Joel

On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>
wrote:

> Thanks for the video Steve.  These are the questions that we must answer
> in permaculture or we are pissing up a rope!  All of the deceit mentioned
> in this presentation exist in permaculture and in may cases in the
> leadership or “stars” of permaculture, which leads me to question is the
> word salvageable or should we move on with a better and more true model of
> change?  I think all the elements exist in permaculture as a design process
> but they have been so compromised that we must invent a new language and
> perhaps a new title for what we are about.
>
>
>
> I often speak of this lack of language in describing pattern.  We have
> lost so much descriptive language that we cannot accurately describe our
> environment anymore.  Branching patterns of moving water is hard pressed to
> name each branch.  What is the real difference between a rill, brook,
> stream, rivulet, river, estuary, and... and.. we have a supposed six orders
> and can only begin to name each of them in a clear and distinctive way.
> The same with tree branching.  If we are unable to succinctly describe our
> environment can we really see it??  I don’t think so.
>
>
>
> I am currently writing a book called “The Dharma of Permaculture” in which
> I am using the ethics and natural principals as the foundation of a true
> dharma of what we are seeking.  This is done in an ashram in Costa Rica
> where I managed to get a “writers” grant.  My pay back  is to meditate
> every morning at 4 AM and afternoon at 5:00PM.  My penance is being
> vegetarian for months on end.  Fortunately I am able to write in this
> solitude and could not in my home environment.  I’m a hundred pages in and
> hope I don’t have to start all over as I think through and learn more about
> the Hindu view of the world and cosmology.
>
>
>
> Wishing you well and thanks for keeping me in the loop.
>
>
>
> Namaste,
>
>
>
> Scott Pittman
>
>
>
>   _____
>
>
>
> From: Steve Hart [mailto:stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 1:48
> To: Leo Bakx; pirn@permaculture.org.uk
> Cc: permaculture; europeanpermaculturenetwork@googlegroups.com; Scott
> Pittman
> Subject: Re: QUESTIONS .. of corruption etc etc
>
>
>
> Yeah Leo..couldn't agree anymore. Love Buckies saying that Scott Pittman
> has used on his signature byline
>
>
>
> ""To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> obsolete"
>
>
>
> But my argument is more than just being involved in this very paradigm
> that most of us are. It is more about being aware of how the existing
> paradigm is driving the collapse over the horizon and how we need to be
> aware of the many policies driving it. The key one being infiltration and
> manipulation of our new paradigm. Then for us to be able to identify these
> and the persons that have been planted or bribed who are rubbing shoulders
> with us and even more than that.
>
>
>
> Some good links now exist to allow us to begin looking into this world
> here's but one
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd-yNHQ7Fs <
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd-yNHQ7Fs&feature=em-subs_digest>
> &feature=em-subs_digest
>
>
>
> I'm keen to see more..obviously when we connect into Youtube there are
> dozens of like links that appear in the right hand collumn menu.
>
>
>
> Steve Hart
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 15 December 2015 at 21:35, Leo Bakx <leo@aardwerk.org> wrote:
>
> Buckmister Fuller comes to mind: "The function of what I call design
> science is to solve problems by introducing into the environment new
> artifacts, the availability of which will induce their spontaneous
> employment by humans and thus, coincidentally, cause humans to abandon
> their previous problem-producing behaviors and devices. For example, when
> humans have a vital need to cross the roaring rapids of a river, as a
> design scientist I would  design them a bridge, causing them, I am sure, to
> abandon spontaneously and forever the risking of their lives by trying to
> swim to the other shore."
> (1983, R. Buckminster Fuller, Cosmography)
>
>
>
> In other words: design something better and compelling to seduce people to
> a better behavior.
>
>
>
> IMHO, perhaps clinical pathological cases excepted, greed is the fear of
> missing out on something. "dog eat dog mentality for survival",
> paraphrasing the expression mistakenly attributed to Darwin "survival of
> the fittest" is a convenient myth for people in the fear-industry. Ideas
> are powerful, but only to the extend that you let them be. If permaculture
> is about the practice of radical imagination (2014, Permaculture Design: On
> the Practice of Radical Imagination, Katja Rothe) then imagine this: the
> most effective solution (in systems thinking at least) is to transcend
> models, paradigms, philosophies or whatever you want to call it, let go and
> just go with the flow of Life, the universe and Everything (1982, Douglas
> Adams).
>
>
>
> l:-)
>
>
>
>
>
> On 14 dec 2015, at 17:54, Steve Hart wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Its time to consider but not to get paranoid and go over the top and fall
> apart but worthy to start considering.
>
>
>
> As the world moves rapidly to many forms of collapse which should be
> evident by now. How do we as a species cope with this. And, how does the
> Permaculture fraternity cope with it ?
>
>
>
> My observation suggests that the greed factor mixed with a dog eat dog
> mentality for survival for oneself is becoming more and more apparent.
> Overlay this with the corporate agendas driven by the 1% who dictate the
> worlds resources and business streams who also manipulate every other
> stream of society they have a well developed plan in locking masses into
> the ferriswheel. Its easy to lock up CEOs with huge salaries and then
> dictate their entire modus operandi. They follow this pattern with the
> senior management tiers, who are all aspiring CEOs for they all want to
> plant their face into that trough as well. Then there are countless middle
> managers who also aspire to such greatness and salaries. We all know
> scientists and engineers can be bought. Politicians likewise.
>
>
>
> So what of the people within the world of Permaculture ? One could assume
> that due to its rapidly rising popularity and its potential success in
> countering the meglamaniac activity of the corporate 1% (C1) and their
> countless slaves Permaculture must be a prime sitting duck to be
> infiltrated and managed to manipulate for the goals and objectives of the
> C1.
>
>
>
> How easily could this be done ?
>
>
>
> We must know by now as Mollison always told us that operating on funding
> and grants is like living on a poison carrot. There is never any
> sustainability or security in the strategy. It seems that many many
> different organisations in our diverse networks search out and expect their
> survival and longevity their lifeline to be propped up and supported by
> such hand-outs. A fatal flaw at best. Mollison also spoke of sustainable
> business enterprise and how imperative it was to recognise true
> sustainability.
>
>
>
> Perhaps we could open this subject up for debate and see where we could
> evolve it.
>
>
>
> We haven't seen a good debate on this channel for awhile. Something to
> ponder over the dearth of xmas
>
>
>
> Have a good one
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Kia ora
>
>  Picture <
> https://mail.google.com/mail/c/u/0/photos/public/AIbEiAIAAABECLOFmezy0frjuQEiC3ZjYXJkX3Bob3RvKigwNWNmOTFiNTcwZjMwOWRhOTAwYmIyODlhODc0ODRlOWNkNjExMTE0MAGFlNvlojdIGY9DLJ-s3muPw43XfQ
> >
> Steve Hart
> Ecology Architect
>
> Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​
> Skype: tipenemanawa
>
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
>
>
>
> Permaculture Global Design:
>
> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org <http://www.permacultureglobaldesign.org/
> >
>
>
>
> The Permaculture College of Europe.
>
> www.permaculturecollege.eu <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu/>
>
>  <https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>
>
>
> GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
>
> www.permaculturepartnerships.com <http://www.permaculturepartnerships.com/
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Kia ora
>
>  Picture <
> https://mail.google.com/mail/c/u/0/photos/public/AIbEiAIAAABECLOFmezy0frjuQEiC3ZjYXJkX3Bob3RvKigwNWNmOTFiNTcwZjMwOWRhOTAwYmIyODlhODc0ODRlOWNkNjExMTE0MAGFlNvlojdIGY9DLJ-s3muPw43XfQ
> >
> Steve Hart
> Ecology Architect
>
> Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​
> Skype: tipenemanawa
>
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
>
>
>
> Permaculture Global Design:
>
> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
>
>
>
> The Permaculture College of Europe.
>
> www.permaculturecollege.eu
>
>  <https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>
>
>
> GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
>
> www.permaculturepartnerships.com
>
>
>
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