permaculture

[Joel Glanzberg <patternmind@gmail.com>]

Was simply trying to respond to one of Scott's thoughts Steve, as that was
the part to which I thought I could usefully respond.

Personally, as I have said elsewhere I do not think that PC is about
landuse, but about learning from the land how to shift living systems
including everything that humans do. So instead of focusing on research
around landuse I am working on how to track the patterns of larger systems
and shift them, because as we all know no matter how many PC paradises we
create they will isolated non-smoking tables in a smoking restaurant.
much love,
Joel

On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 10:08 PM, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
wrote:

> So Joel...what elements of this book fit the subject title on this debate ?
> Or how can we reinterpret it as Scott mentions ?...to avoid going
> completely tangentially offf topic ?
>
> Steve
>
> On 20 December 2015 at 16:45, Joel Glanzberg <patternmind@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Scott have you seen Barry Lopez's book Home Ground?
> > http://www.amazon.com/Home-Ground-Guide-American-Landscape/dp/1595341757
> > All about some of what you are asking about...a lexicon defining all of
> the
> > words you cited and more, by many autors.
> >
> > Joel
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks for the video Steve.  These are the questions that we must
> answer
> > > in permaculture or we are pissing up a rope!  All of the deceit
> mentioned
> > > in this presentation exist in permaculture and in may cases in the
> > > leadership or “stars” of permaculture, which leads me to question is
> the
> > > word salvageable or should we move on with a better and more true model
> > of
> > > change?  I think all the elements exist in permaculture as a design
> > process
> > > but they have been so compromised that we must invent a new language
> and
> > > perhaps a new title for what we are about.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I often speak of this lack of language in describing pattern.  We have
> > > lost so much descriptive language that we cannot accurately describe
> our
> > > environment anymore.  Branching patterns of moving water is hard
> pressed
> > to
> > > name each branch.  What is the real difference between a rill, brook,
> > > stream, rivulet, river, estuary, and... and.. we have a supposed six
> > orders
> > > and can only begin to name each of them in a clear and distinctive way.
> > > The same with tree branching.  If we are unable to succinctly describe
> > our
> > > environment can we really see it??  I don’t think so.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am currently writing a book called “The Dharma of Permaculture” in
> > which
> > > I am using the ethics and natural principals as the foundation of a
> true
> > > dharma of what we are seeking.  This is done in an ashram in Costa Rica
> > > where I managed to get a “writers” grant.  My pay back  is to meditate
> > > every morning at 4 AM and afternoon at 5:00PM.  My penance is being
> > > vegetarian for months on end.  Fortunately I am able to write in this
> > > solitude and could not in my home environment.  I’m a hundred pages in
> > and
> > > hope I don’t have to start all over as I think through and learn more
> > about
> > > the Hindu view of the world and cosmology.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wishing you well and thanks for keeping me in the loop.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Namaste,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Scott Pittman
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   _____
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Steve Hart [mailto:stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 1:48
> > > To: Leo Bakx; pirn@permaculture.org.uk
> > > Cc: permaculture; europeanpermaculturenetwork@googlegroups.com; Scott
> > > Pittman
> > > Subject: Re: QUESTIONS .. of corruption etc etc
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah Leo..couldn't agree anymore. Love Buckies saying that Scott
> Pittman
> > > has used on his signature byline
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ""To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> > > obsolete"
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > But my argument is more than just being involved in this very paradigm
> > > that most of us are. It is more about being aware of how the existing
> > > paradigm is driving the collapse over the horizon and how we need to be
> > > aware of the many policies driving it. The key one being infiltration
> and
> > > manipulation of our new paradigm. Then for us to be able to identify
> > these
> > > and the persons that have been planted or bribed who are rubbing
> > shoulders
> > > with us and even more than that.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Some good links now exist to allow us to begin looking into this world
> > > here's but one
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd-yNHQ7Fs <
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd-yNHQ7Fs&feature=em-subs_digest>
> > > &feature=em-subs_digest
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm keen to see more..obviously when we connect into Youtube there are
> > > dozens of like links that appear in the right hand collumn menu.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Steve Hart
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 December 2015 at 21:35, Leo Bakx <leo@aardwerk.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Buckmister Fuller comes to mind: "The function of what I call design
> > > science is to solve problems by introducing into the environment new
> > > artifacts, the availability of which will induce their spontaneous
> > > employment by humans and thus, coincidentally, cause humans to abandon
> > > their previous problem-producing behaviors and devices. For example,
> when
> > > humans have a vital need to cross the roaring rapids of a river, as a
> > > design scientist I would  design them a bridge, causing them, I am
> sure,
> > to
> > > abandon spontaneously and forever the risking of their lives by trying
> to
> > > swim to the other shore."
> > > (1983, R. Buckminster Fuller, Cosmography)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In other words: design something better and compelling to seduce people
> > to
> > > a better behavior.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > IMHO, perhaps clinical pathological cases excepted, greed is the fear
> of
> > > missing out on something. "dog eat dog mentality for survival",
> > > paraphrasing the expression mistakenly attributed to Darwin "survival
> of
> > > the fittest" is a convenient myth for people in the fear-industry.
> Ideas
> > > are powerful, but only to the extend that you let them be. If
> > permaculture
> > > is about the practice of radical imagination (2014, Permaculture
> Design:
> > On
> > > the Practice of Radical Imagination, Katja Rothe) then imagine this:
> the
> > > most effective solution (in systems thinking at least) is to transcend
> > > models, paradigms, philosophies or whatever you want to call it, let go
> > and
> > > just go with the flow of Life, the universe and Everything (1982,
> Douglas
> > > Adams).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > l:-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 14 dec 2015, at 17:54, Steve Hart wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Its time to consider but not to get paranoid and go over the top and
> fall
> > > apart but worthy to start considering.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As the world moves rapidly to many forms of collapse which should be
> > > evident by now. How do we as a species cope with this. And, how does
> the
> > > Permaculture fraternity cope with it ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > My observation suggests that the greed factor mixed with a dog eat dog
> > > mentality for survival for oneself is becoming more and more apparent.
> > > Overlay this with the corporate agendas driven by the 1% who dictate
> the
> > > worlds resources and business streams who also manipulate every other
> > > stream of society they have a well developed plan in locking masses
> into
> > > the ferriswheel. Its easy to lock up CEOs with huge salaries and then
> > > dictate their entire modus operandi. They follow this pattern with the
> > > senior management tiers, who are all aspiring CEOs for they all want to
> > > plant their face into that trough as well. Then there are countless
> > middle
> > > managers who also aspire to such greatness and salaries. We all know
> > > scientists and engineers can be bought. Politicians likewise.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > So what of the people within the world of Permaculture ? One could
> assume
> > > that due to its rapidly rising popularity and its potential success in
> > > countering the meglamaniac activity of the corporate 1% (C1) and their
> > > countless slaves Permaculture must be a prime sitting duck to be
> > > infiltrated and managed to manipulate for the goals and objectives of
> the
> > > C1.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > How easily could this be done ?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We must know by now as Mollison always told us that operating on
> funding
> > > and grants is like living on a poison carrot. There is never any
> > > sustainability or security in the strategy. It seems that many many
> > > different organisations in our diverse networks search out and expect
> > their
> > > survival and longevity their lifeline to be propped up and supported by
> > > such hand-outs. A fatal flaw at best. Mollison also spoke of
> sustainable
> > > business enterprise and how imperative it was to recognise true
> > > sustainability.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Perhaps we could open this subject up for debate and see where we could
> > > evolve it.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > We haven't seen a good debate on this channel for awhile. Something to
> > > ponder over the dearth of xmas
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Have a good one
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Kia ora
> > >
> > >  Picture <
> > >
> >
> https://mail.google.com/mail/c/u/0/photos/public/AIbEiAIAAABECLOFmezy0frjuQEiC3ZjYXJkX3Bob3RvKigwNWNmOTFiNTcwZjMwOWRhOTAwYmIyODlhODc0ODRlOWNkNjExMTE0MAGFlNvlojdIGY9DLJ-s3muPw43XfQ
> > > >
> > > Steve Hart
> > > Ecology Architect
> > >
> > > Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape
> Architecture
> > > and Systems Ecology.​
> > > Skype: tipenemanawa
> > >
> > > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Permaculture Global Design:
> > >
> > > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org <
> > http://www.permacultureglobaldesign.org/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> > >
> > > www.permaculturecollege.eu <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu/>
> > >
> > >  <https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> > > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> > >
> > > www.permaculturepartnerships.com <
> > http://www.permaculturepartnerships.com/
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Kia ora
> > >
> > >  Picture <
> > >
> >
> https://mail.google.com/mail/c/u/0/photos/public/AIbEiAIAAABECLOFmezy0frjuQEiC3ZjYXJkX3Bob3RvKigwNWNmOTFiNTcwZjMwOWRhOTAwYmIyODlhODc0ODRlOWNkNjExMTE0MAGFlNvlojdIGY9DLJ-s3muPw43XfQ
> > > >
> > > Steve Hart
> > > Ecology Architect
> > >
> > > Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape
> Architecture
> > > and Systems Ecology.​
> > > Skype: tipenemanawa
> > >
> > > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Permaculture Global Design:
> > >
> > > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> > >
> > > www.permaculturecollege.eu
> > >
> > >  <https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> > > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> > >
> > > www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > permaculture mailing list
> > > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > > subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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> > >
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> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kia ora
>
> [image: Picture]
> *Steve Hart*
> *Ecology Architect*
> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> and Systems Ecology.​*
> Skype: tipenemanawa
> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
>
> Permaculture Global Design:
> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
>
> The Permaculture College of Europe.
> www.permaculturecollege.eu
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
>
> GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
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>