permaculture

[Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>]

So Joel...what elements of this book fit the subject title on this debate ?
Or how can we reinterpret it as Scott mentions ?...to avoid going
completely tangentially offf topic ?

Steve

On 20 December 2015 at 16:45, Joel Glanzberg <patternmind@gmail.com> wrote:

> Scott have you seen Barry Lopez's book Home Ground?
> http://www.amazon.com/Home-Ground-Guide-American-Landscape/dp/1595341757
> All about some of what you are asking about...a lexicon defining all of the
> words you cited and more, by many autors.
>
> Joel
>
> On Sat, Dec 19, 2015 at 6:39 PM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the video Steve.  These are the questions that we must answer
> > in permaculture or we are pissing up a rope!  All of the deceit mentioned
> > in this presentation exist in permaculture and in may cases in the
> > leadership or “stars” of permaculture, which leads me to question is the
> > word salvageable or should we move on with a better and more true model
> of
> > change?  I think all the elements exist in permaculture as a design
> process
> > but they have been so compromised that we must invent a new language and
> > perhaps a new title for what we are about.
> >
> >
> >
> > I often speak of this lack of language in describing pattern.  We have
> > lost so much descriptive language that we cannot accurately describe our
> > environment anymore.  Branching patterns of moving water is hard pressed
> to
> > name each branch.  What is the real difference between a rill, brook,
> > stream, rivulet, river, estuary, and... and.. we have a supposed six
> orders
> > and can only begin to name each of them in a clear and distinctive way.
> > The same with tree branching.  If we are unable to succinctly describe
> our
> > environment can we really see it??  I don’t think so.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am currently writing a book called “The Dharma of Permaculture” in
> which
> > I am using the ethics and natural principals as the foundation of a true
> > dharma of what we are seeking.  This is done in an ashram in Costa Rica
> > where I managed to get a “writers” grant.  My pay back  is to meditate
> > every morning at 4 AM and afternoon at 5:00PM.  My penance is being
> > vegetarian for months on end.  Fortunately I am able to write in this
> > solitude and could not in my home environment.  I’m a hundred pages in
> and
> > hope I don’t have to start all over as I think through and learn more
> about
> > the Hindu view of the world and cosmology.
> >
> >
> >
> > Wishing you well and thanks for keeping me in the loop.
> >
> >
> >
> > Namaste,
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott Pittman
> >
> >
> >
> >   _____
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Steve Hart [mailto:stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2015 1:48
> > To: Leo Bakx; pirn@permaculture.org.uk
> > Cc: permaculture; europeanpermaculturenetwork@googlegroups.com; Scott
> > Pittman
> > Subject: Re: QUESTIONS .. of corruption etc etc
> >
> >
> >
> > Yeah Leo..couldn't agree anymore. Love Buckies saying that Scott Pittman
> > has used on his signature byline
> >
> >
> >
> > ""To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
> > obsolete"
> >
> >
> >
> > But my argument is more than just being involved in this very paradigm
> > that most of us are. It is more about being aware of how the existing
> > paradigm is driving the collapse over the horizon and how we need to be
> > aware of the many policies driving it. The key one being infiltration and
> > manipulation of our new paradigm. Then for us to be able to identify
> these
> > and the persons that have been planted or bribed who are rubbing
> shoulders
> > with us and even more than that.
> >
> >
> >
> > Some good links now exist to allow us to begin looking into this world
> > here's but one
> >
> >
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd-yNHQ7Fs <
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwd-yNHQ7Fs&feature=em-subs_digest>
> > &feature=em-subs_digest
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm keen to see more..obviously when we connect into Youtube there are
> > dozens of like links that appear in the right hand collumn menu.
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve Hart
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 15 December 2015 at 21:35, Leo Bakx <leo@aardwerk.org> wrote:
> >
> > Buckmister Fuller comes to mind: "The function of what I call design
> > science is to solve problems by introducing into the environment new
> > artifacts, the availability of which will induce their spontaneous
> > employment by humans and thus, coincidentally, cause humans to abandon
> > their previous problem-producing behaviors and devices. For example, when
> > humans have a vital need to cross the roaring rapids of a river, as a
> > design scientist I would  design them a bridge, causing them, I am sure,
> to
> > abandon spontaneously and forever the risking of their lives by trying to
> > swim to the other shore."
> > (1983, R. Buckminster Fuller, Cosmography)
> >
> >
> >
> > In other words: design something better and compelling to seduce people
> to
> > a better behavior.
> >
> >
> >
> > IMHO, perhaps clinical pathological cases excepted, greed is the fear of
> > missing out on something. "dog eat dog mentality for survival",
> > paraphrasing the expression mistakenly attributed to Darwin "survival of
> > the fittest" is a convenient myth for people in the fear-industry. Ideas
> > are powerful, but only to the extend that you let them be. If
> permaculture
> > is about the practice of radical imagination (2014, Permaculture Design:
> On
> > the Practice of Radical Imagination, Katja Rothe) then imagine this: the
> > most effective solution (in systems thinking at least) is to transcend
> > models, paradigms, philosophies or whatever you want to call it, let go
> and
> > just go with the flow of Life, the universe and Everything (1982, Douglas
> > Adams).
> >
> >
> >
> > l:-)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 14 dec 2015, at 17:54, Steve Hart wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Its time to consider but not to get paranoid and go over the top and fall
> > apart but worthy to start considering.
> >
> >
> >
> > As the world moves rapidly to many forms of collapse which should be
> > evident by now. How do we as a species cope with this. And, how does the
> > Permaculture fraternity cope with it ?
> >
> >
> >
> > My observation suggests that the greed factor mixed with a dog eat dog
> > mentality for survival for oneself is becoming more and more apparent.
> > Overlay this with the corporate agendas driven by the 1% who dictate the
> > worlds resources and business streams who also manipulate every other
> > stream of society they have a well developed plan in locking masses into
> > the ferriswheel. Its easy to lock up CEOs with huge salaries and then
> > dictate their entire modus operandi. They follow this pattern with the
> > senior management tiers, who are all aspiring CEOs for they all want to
> > plant their face into that trough as well. Then there are countless
> middle
> > managers who also aspire to such greatness and salaries. We all know
> > scientists and engineers can be bought. Politicians likewise.
> >
> >
> >
> > So what of the people within the world of Permaculture ? One could assume
> > that due to its rapidly rising popularity and its potential success in
> > countering the meglamaniac activity of the corporate 1% (C1) and their
> > countless slaves Permaculture must be a prime sitting duck to be
> > infiltrated and managed to manipulate for the goals and objectives of the
> > C1.
> >
> >
> >
> > How easily could this be done ?
> >
> >
> >
> > We must know by now as Mollison always told us that operating on funding
> > and grants is like living on a poison carrot. There is never any
> > sustainability or security in the strategy. It seems that many many
> > different organisations in our diverse networks search out and expect
> their
> > survival and longevity their lifeline to be propped up and supported by
> > such hand-outs. A fatal flaw at best. Mollison also spoke of sustainable
> > business enterprise and how imperative it was to recognise true
> > sustainability.
> >
> >
> >
> > Perhaps we could open this subject up for debate and see where we could
> > evolve it.
> >
> >
> >
> > We haven't seen a good debate on this channel for awhile. Something to
> > ponder over the dearth of xmas
> >
> >
> >
> > Have a good one
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Kia ora
> >
> >  Picture <
> >
> https://mail.google.com/mail/c/u/0/photos/public/AIbEiAIAAABECLOFmezy0frjuQEiC3ZjYXJkX3Bob3RvKigwNWNmOTFiNTcwZjMwOWRhOTAwYmIyODlhODc0ODRlOWNkNjExMTE0MAGFlNvlojdIGY9DLJ-s3muPw43XfQ
> > >
> > Steve Hart
> > Ecology Architect
> >
> > Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> > and Systems Ecology.​
> > Skype: tipenemanawa
> >
> > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> >
> >
> >
> > Permaculture Global Design:
> >
> > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org <
> http://www.permacultureglobaldesign.org/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> >
> > www.permaculturecollege.eu <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu/>
> >
> >  <https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> >
> >
> >
> > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> >
> > www.permaculturepartnerships.com <
> http://www.permaculturepartnerships.com/
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Kia ora
> >
> >  Picture <
> >
> https://mail.google.com/mail/c/u/0/photos/public/AIbEiAIAAABECLOFmezy0frjuQEiC3ZjYXJkX3Bob3RvKigwNWNmOTFiNTcwZjMwOWRhOTAwYmIyODlhODc0ODRlOWNkNjExMTE0MAGFlNvlojdIGY9DLJ-s3muPw43XfQ
> > >
> > Steve Hart
> > Ecology Architect
> >
> > Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> > and Systems Ecology.​
> > Skype: tipenemanawa
> >
> > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> >
> >
> >
> > Permaculture Global Design:
> >
> > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
> >
> >
> >
> > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> >
> > www.permaculturecollege.eu
> >
> >  <https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> >
> >
> >
> > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> >
> > www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> >
> >
> >
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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> >
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-- 
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com