permaculture

[Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>]

Hi Darren..what exactly had you anticipated ? It seems your retort has
obvious emotional intent and reactions. Quite obvious I guess when one
feels attacked or questioned and exposed as you may be feeling in this
debate.

You mention *" scan through my many examples of design that I’ve got on
display as opposed to me running through some - that way its up to others
to decide whether these are good, bad or ugly." *

Where are these to be found ? I don't think any level of such scanning will
give a fair indication of the many levels of capacity required for any
Permaculture Design. True and accurate critiques go well beyond scanned
viewings.

The questions we need to be asking ourselves revolve around the rigour of
our schools of Permaculture and how we can graduate better equipped
designers. Permaculture is a Design Philosophy. The debate will go on for
many moons about quality and capacity of any design that is produced from
our global college. IMO it is an area that we need considerable growth in
to improve upon at all levels. As a school of design we have not got passed
weed stage in our successional evolution. Some of us may consider ourselves
as pioneers and others may even be canopy species but most are still caught
in mycellium. This is yet another challenge for us to evolve and grow.
Maybe just maybe this issue could come up during our IIPCs and any other
conference the Permaculture networks of the world have.

An intriguing comparison is that of other conventional schools of design
viz, architecture and landscape architecture and even urban design.  The
social sciences are now coming into play too, business and economics well
thats another dimension a way off yet. Permaculture of course involves all
these disciplines in design. Its great we are now seeing the emergence of
new additional courses in Permaculture like "Permaculture in Community"
which brings in elements of social science business and economics. I'm
interested in all the layers of Permaculture but often gravitate back to
the specific landuse agriculture based areas which was the basis and
beginning of the formation of Permaculture. We do have many good examples
and models to choose from to assist us in our designs. I have been a strong
advocate for "Advanced Permaculture Design Courses" to assist those who
want to design in delving deeper into what systems, tools, procedures,
practices  and processes are there to evolve more credible designs. A
strong part of such is the critique process. IMO quite valuable for it
allows any design idea or presentation greater review of its potential,
success or failure. It also teaches both the designer and all who
participate in the critique process ways of seeing things. It is another
learning tool. And, we never stop learning, if one is open to it.

My original comment about the poor capacity of Key Note Speakers at our
IPCs will ideally bring this debate out into a more rational communique for
our global college to gain from rather than one based on emotion and
retaliation. .. Steve Hart

On 20 June 2015 at 12:27, HeenanDoherty <heenandoherty@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks Steve for the response that I anticipated.
>
> As someone who works outside of Permaculture I’ll take this all as a
> complement then. But when it comes to design I am a designer and this is
> clearly demonstrated.
>
> I’ll leave it to you and to scan through my many examples of design that
> I’ve got on display as opposed to me running through some - that way its up
> to others to decide whether these are good, bad or ugly. I would again
> invite you to do the same Steve.
>
> Perhaps you should go to London and present, if you are a designer and
> have a great track record to share then that would be an ideal opportunity
> I would have thought.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Darren
>
>
> > On 20 Jun 2015, at 09:56, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Darren et al..thanks for your retort. Good to get some stimuli at
> least,
> > to hopefully evolve a constructive debate.
> >
> > There are many parts to this whole subject, issue and debate. We all know
> > that Permaculture is a Design Philosophy set from ethics based on
> > principles. It is a great mantra to help keep us in the groove of what
> many
> > of us aspire to. We also know there are many shortcomings to the whole
> > discipline evolved through Permaculture since its inception. The greatest
> > IMO is the lack of design capacity in all who carry on any initiative
> under
> > its banner. We know also Mollisons drive to just get out there and do it.
> > However he also set in place the Diploma structures to help build the
> > capacities needed. Sadly much of that has been ignored, abused and
> eroded.
> >
> > In the world of design anyone can call oneself a designer. My history is
> a
> > journey through the professional arenas of land use design in
> Architecture,
> > Landscape Architecture and Urban Design fusing such with Permaculture. I
> > have evolved my design critique through the severe frames within that
> > associated professional world. The critiques are severe, but often far
> too
> > few.
> >
> > Many of us have seen many failures labelled as Permaculture Designs.
> There
> > was a move to establish a Permaculture Designers Guild once but that
> failed
> > due to ego and avarice amongst other things. One way of evolving good
> > models is to have them go through a peer review or similar critique
> > process.
> >
> > Should we as a global collective similarly critique our activities at
> this
> > level. We have our international conferences as a flagship to our
> doctrine
> > which ideally show the world excellence in our, achievements, work and
> > needs.  For the purposes of evolving greater attraction and recognition
> and
> > support from the wider community I think that is obvious, we must. As a
> > strong supporter of IPCs I like to offer my 20 cents worth to develop a
> > more successful event for all parties. Very early in the development of
> > IPC12 in London seeing the theme, I offered my comments on potential
> > valuable key note speakers. ( Attached ) Perhaps we may see some of them.
> > These were people of international significance who could offer much in
> > many areas of design to all layers of Permaculture. Presently I do not
> see
> > any key note speakers fitting the bill. You included Darren.
> >
> > You state Darren  *"I think you need to put up or shut up as I will be
> > darned if I am going to accept your assertion that I am not a designer."*
> >
> > What would you like me to *"put up"* ? These opinions are mine, I own
> them,
> > for the reasons stated. I also enjoy the freedom to offer critique, good
> > bad ugly or indifferent. Personally I feel it is a positive exercise for
> > all involved. If you present yourself as a global expert in Permaculture
> > Design Darren, what then, are your flagships of successful design ?
> >
> > You also ask *"Furthermore I’d love to see your track record out and
> > exposed for all to see" * I have no problem with having my track record
> > exposed. I hide nothing and am open to any communique about any activity
> > viewpoint or assertion I make. Perhaps this site is the only facility
> > anyone can present their views on any subject without it being edited. A
> > very welcome energy IMO.
> >
> > You also say *"something that in this space I have been particularly avid
> > at doing without fear or favour".  *It is great you have no fear to offer
> > such, nor do I. But I do enjoy honest creative inputs to evolve greater
> > outcomes. Rather than the abuse, emotional retort, inuendos, insults and
> > vitriol we do witness at times.
> >
> > You and Lisa have obviously done a huge amount to spreading many good
> > elements of Permaculture to many across the globe. This is seemingly IMO
> a
> > business choice you have made. You have also created your own label away
> > from the world of Permaculture and out of it. You have also developed a
> > number of good tools and more coming on line soon it seems.
> >
> > We are aware of the challenges of the next generation and what our
> > challenges are in this world. How we can work constructively together and
> > assist each other is another challenge. To offer constructive critique I
> > think has many positive attributes at least it may help this discipline
> > become stronger and more qualified.
> >
> > Liker always I do look fwd to the creative constructive debate for such
> ends
> >
> > Steve Hart
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 15 June 2015 at 12:39, HeenanDoherty <heenandoherty@gmail.com
> <mailto:heenandoherty@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >> Thanks Steve,
> >>
> >> Curious about your statement,
> >>
> >> “...None of the key note speakers are designers, none have any
> successful
> >> design solutions. None are involved in
> >> developing honest design initiatives…”
> >>
> >> As I’m one of the keynotes listed I’m gathering that I mustn’t be a
> >> designer by your reckoning and that therefore the work that I have done
> >> since 1993 across the planet has not involved any design?
> >>
> >> That being the case, with all due respect, I think you need to put up or
> >> shut up as I will be darned if I am going to accept your assertion that
> I
> >> am not a designer. Furthermore I’d love to see your track record out and
> >> exposed for all to see — something that in this space I have been
> >> particularly avid at doing without fear or favour.
> >>
> >> For the record we are not likely to be attending IPCUK...
> >>
> >> Yours & Growing,
> >>
> >> Lisa Heenan, Isaebella Doherty & Darren J. Doherty,
> >> Directors,
> >>
> >> Regrarians Ltd.
> >>
> >> CHECK OUT REGRARIANS.ORG <http://regrarians.org/> <
> http://regrarians.org/ <http://regrarians.org/>>!!
> >>
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> http://bit.ly/RegrariansFB>>
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> http://bit.ly/RegrariansFBGroup>>
> >> follow us on twitter <http://www.twitter.com/regrarians <
> http://www.twitter.com/regrarians>>
> >>
> >> +61 (0) 400.840.845
> >> +61 (0) 431.444.836
> >>
> >> ALL YOUR LAND NEEDS
> >> #EatBuyGrow • #PlanTrainShow
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 15 Jun 2015, at 02:14, Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> There is an interesting discussion evolving which needs far wider
> debate
> >>> and discussion to evolve more meaningful ends for greater value.
> >>>
> >>> IPC, The International Permaculture Conference has a chequered history
> >> but
> >>> also rich diverse and valuable for we know Permaculture has
> international
> >>> solutions to offer, as well as local.
> >>>
> >>> Aligned to this is the evolution of energies to move different sectors
> of
> >>> Permaculture forward positively. Great work is coming out of the
> PAssocUK
> >>> in these areas.
> >>>
> >>> However we still need to assess all moves and motives with clarity and
> >>> honesty.
> >>>
> >>> I have been personally involved in the IPC activity from the beginning
> >> and
> >>> remain keen to continue its value and service to the greater community
> >> both
> >>> within the fraternity and outside.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ​The IPC is our flagship international event. In my opinion it deserves
> >> to
> >>> be respected as an international event and present international
> issues,
> >>> global issues, ​inviting a global array of presenters, including most
> of
> >>> all global key note speakers.
> >>>
> >>> The upcoming IPC in London is our 12th international conference. All
> >>> conferences have been traditionally titled with the number in this case
> >> it
> >>> will be IPC12. Tradition has shifted or is it marketing/promotion and
> >>> imaging or is it a diversion of focus to grandise it for personal
> >> motives ?
> >>> IPCUK ? When it is not a UK conference, it is an international
> >> conference.
> >>> It is in England. It is not the Permaculture conference of England or
> >>> United Kingdom. It is our international conference, with the UK
> >>> Permaculture association being the hosts.
> >>>
> >>> The whole IPC12 is titled IPCUK it has become an England
> >>> marketing/promotion campaign and totally overloaded with English
> speakers
> >>> who have little or anything at all to offer the subject at any level
> let
> >>> alone developing any international Permaculture solutions and debate.
> >>>
> >>> The promoted  Theme of IPC12 is "*Designing* the network we want - for
> >>> people from *around the world* using permaculture in their everyday
> lives
> >>> and *communities*." So my argument is, where are the designers in the
> key
> >>> note speakers ? and where is the around the world communities?. Is
> there
> >>> something missing or have I missed it ? None of the key note speakers
> are
> >>> designers, none have any successful design solutions. None are involved
> >> in
> >>> developing honest design initiatives.
> >>>
> >>> As mentioned we have a chequered history in these events. There has
> often
> >>> been debate in whether we need an international structure with an
> entity
> >> to
> >>> assist in the delivery of all things needed. Presently there is none. I
> >> do
> >>> applaud PAssocUK for taking the initiative in a strategy to evolve such
> >> an
> >>> entity. We need to come on board here and express our opinions but to
> >>> ensure also they are heard and followed through.
> >>>
> >>> We do not need agendas of self promotion. We need a greater collective
> >>> entity for the whole, for the bigger picture. We know Permaculture has
> a
> >>> huge amount to offer the worlds issues and problems. We know we have
> the
> >>> solutions to many if the woes. But we need to act accordingly, as a
> >>> cohesive international entity. We need to feel free to voice our
> concerns
> >>> and offer solutions.
> >>>
> >>> I am not sure if IPC12 in London is inviting such a forum for debate
> and
> >>> workshoping. There is no evidence yet  that it is. But we need to
> develop
> >>> it, stimulate it and maintain it to evolve the models and solutions we
> >> know
> >>> we can offer this world.
> >>>
> >>> I do look forward to the stimuli
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Kia ora
> >>>
> >>> [image: Picture]
> >>> *Steve Hart*
> >>> *Ecology Architect*
> >>> *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> >>> Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape
> Architecture
> >>> and Systems Ecology.​*
> >>> Skype: tipenemanawa
> >>> Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> >>>
> >>> Permaculture Global Design:
> >>> www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
> >>>
> >>> The Permaculture College of Europe.
> >>> www.permaculturecollege.eu
> >>> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> >>>
> >>> GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> >>> www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
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> >>> Google message archive search:
> >>> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> >>> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> >>> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> >>> http://www.ipermie.net
> >>> Avant Geared  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> >>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> >>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> >> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> >>> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
> >> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and
> enhanced
> >> nature-compatible
> >>> human habitat --
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com <
> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com/>
> >> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com <
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com/>
> >> Google message archive search:
> >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture <
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture> [searchstring]
> >> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org <
> http://permaculture.org/>
> >> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> >> http://www.ipermie.net <http://www.ipermie.net/>
> >> Avant Geared  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ <
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/>
> >> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared <
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared>
> >> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> >> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> >> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
> integrated
> >> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> >> nature-compatible
> >> human habitat --
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kia ora
> >
> > [image: Picture]
> > *Steve Hart*
> > *Ecology Architect*
> > *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> > and Systems Ecology.​*
> > Skype: tipenemanawa
> > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> >
> > Permaculture Global Design:
> > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org <
> http://www.permacultureglobaldesign.org/>
> >
> > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> > www.permaculturecollege.eu <http://www.permaculturecollege.eu/>
> > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart <
> https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart>
> >
> > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> > www.permaculturepartnerships.com <
> http://www.permaculturepartnerships.com/>
> > <IPC12 KNS 1..pdf>_______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe <mailto:
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe>/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture <
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>
> > message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture <
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture>
> > message archive mirrors:
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist <
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist>
> > http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com <
> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com/>
> > http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com <
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com/>
> > Google message archive search:
> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture <
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture> [searchstring]
> > Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org <
> http://permaculture.org/>
> > How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> > http://www.ipermie.net <http://www.ipermie.net/>
> > Avant Geared  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/ <
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/>
> > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared <
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared>
> > Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> > while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> > human habitat --
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> message archive mirrors:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> human habitat --
>



-- 
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com