Skip to Content.
Sympa Menu

permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Larry / George / The Extinction of Fruits and Vegetables in 80 Years

permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org

Subject: permaculture

List archive

Chronological Thread  
  • From: Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Larry / George / The Extinction of Fruits and Vegetables in 80 Years
  • Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 22:10:19 +0000 (UTC)

Hi Guys :-),
This is not to take away from your very valid point/s, because extincton IMO
is a real and in-our-faces problem today.
Additional points:1.) I have also noticed that many seed companies in the
past seem to have "re-named" varieties in an attempt to get some kind of
pseudo-proprietary control over their seed-selling markets or customer bases,
and I am absolutely certain that the same thing goes on today. For example
same bean, 3 different names.
I do think there is less of it now, but I am sure it still goes on, from what
I have seen in seed catalogues.
2.) I also don't trust many "new" seed varieties not to be GMO :(. For
instance, in my Gurney's catalog (several years ago now) I had to go through
the thing, crossing out seeds which were not verbatimly designated as GMO,
but had Patent #'s which were printed within the seed descriptions in the
catalog.Much of every page got crossed out by the time I was done. Haven't
seen a Gurney's catalog up close since.
3.) On the upside, I did also read a couple of years ago how some scientist/s
or other had grown an entire new Raspberry plant from a single leaf.
4.) Maybe once we get the Sociopaths removed from their entrenchments, we may
actually be able to recover from all this ecological destruction.
These are some of the things I think about, every day.

Namaste,
Linda
From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 8:55 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Extinction of Fruits and Vegetables in 80
Years

On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:

> > If you were alive in 1903, you would have been able to choose from more
> > than 500 varieties of cabbage, 400 varieties of peas and tomatoes, and
> 285
> > varieties of cucumbers.
>
> While the erosion of genetic ressources in general and of vegetable
> varietis in particular is certainly a grave issue, the above sentence is
> propaganda misrepresentation. Back in 1903 these seed companies certainly
> were quite local or regional, and most people could propably only choose
> from less varieties than any gardener with internet today.
>
> Georg
>

You are right, it probably is propaganda and clickbait. More seeds are
available now by mail order
or private exchange but if you combined all the seed varieties available
from all the local sources
years ago and compared that with what is available now some serious
varietal losses would probably be evident.
--
Lawrence F. London
lfljvenaura@gmail.com
Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/


_______________________________________________
permaculture mailing list
permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
message archive mirrors:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
Google message archive search:
site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
http://www.ipermie.net
Avant Geared  https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
practicing and teaching permaculture
while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
nature-compatible
human habitat --



>From stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com Wed May 20 18:21:53 2015
Return-Path: <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
X-Original-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Delivered-To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Received: by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix, from userid 20217)
id 766BA22DAE; Wed, 20 May 2015 18:21:53 -0400 (EDT)
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on
mailman1.ibiblio.org
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED,
DKIM_VALID,DKIM_VALID_AU,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW autolearn=ham
version=3.3.1
Received: from mail-oi0-f51.google.com (mail-oi0-f51.google.com
[209.85.218.51])
by lists.ibiblio.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ADEB2164F
for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>;
Wed, 20 May 2015 18:21:50 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by oihd6 with SMTP id d6so4162441oih.2
for <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>;
Wed, 20 May 2015 15:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s 120113;
h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to
:content-type; bh=JDy//Q5ptAHuou6zGVEBPTFGLgRefprrwtcFkMUI2Kk=;
b=uZKBoeaj96u26W3s3bQ9pj+Zjl6bykeko2fciOJESnqtGrCPCVBgTaFL3aXuN7N2Y7
XfQGFThbEEj2TFOo9z9n3DBelyeI3KaEjfxURLG0yNO/qtojWDa2xQHz4LkJv0WBpxV8
34mU+D0qNOYj5IvOIYZNc1c6GxVc2r5nKbP+KFG/HT6U+q91eXokv6OVYUV/y++5uGyF
EmTTSK55iwK4920wQeiBum1E7oVgjkZkn5MBB27ieA1dTrQloVtG/dwoj7VnHTmx7Cqa
zkw506LZusrnWuUh7uLEQQzfQvBozcyCfDA36ebVdilYU8AhmaJrNOYJf9ApGiuLHkOW
DrNQ=MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Received: by 10.202.243.215 with SMTP id
r206mr27673780oih.106.1432160510585;
Wed, 20 May 2015 15:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by 10.60.146.198 with HTTP; Wed, 20 May 2015 15:21:50 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <1953181267.1552203.1432159819671.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References:
<CA+j2Q+DcQmeQ-kYJExLL1dJcYQzA6iJY0Rf9+F5dNSZqPPt-Sg@mail.gmail.com>
<1953181267.1552203.1432159819671.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 10:21:50 +1200
Message-ID:
<CALkGY+rMaU+22rt=yWrCZ=NH5yNGcn6mpPNL=COAhQHrRTZmCg@mail.gmail.com>
From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.19
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Larry / George / The Extinction of Fruits and
Vegetables in 80 Years
X-BeenThere: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.19
Precedence: list
List-Id: permaculture <permaculture.lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/options/permaculture>,
<mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/>
List-Post: <mailto:permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
List-Help: <mailto:sympa@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=HELP>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture>,
<mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 22:21:53 -0000

EXTINCTION is a great subject Linda, which many of learn very little about
at school or university for that matter. There is such a thing as species
extinction. There are a number of divergent theories of how and why. But it
is real we do know that. The other reality is that species man is a
species. What indicators will we recognise when we evolve to this state ?
Will it be through a number of elements ? Will it be largely due to
resource depletion ? Will it be due to suffocation from our own deficant or
wastes ? Or will we have the added element of annihilation ? There is
thinking about that groups within the controlling pyramid of power (PoP
)certainly have plans in mind and are evolving them.

What we can do about it is the great challenge ? Obviously we can not
overpopulate this planet. That must be a given ? So zero or reverse
population growth is certainly a consideration. PoP have this in their
sights. Shall we just sit back and watch ? or recognise real solutions that
will work ? Ecologically Sustainable Resilient Communities. The work of my
Masters and PhD...Steve Hart

On 21 May 2015 at 10:10, Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net> wrote:

> Hi Guys :-),
> This is not to take away from your very valid point/s, because extincton
> IMO is a real and in-our-faces problem today.
> Additional points:1.) I have also noticed that many seed companies in the
> past seem to have "re-named" varieties in an attempt to get some kind of
> pseudo-proprietary control over their seed-selling markets or customer
> bases, and I am absolutely certain that the same thing goes on today. For
> example same bean, 3 different names.
> I do think there is less of it now, but I am sure it still goes on, from
> what I have seen in seed catalogues.
> 2.) I also don't trust many "new" seed varieties not to be GMO :(. For
> instance, in my Gurney's catalog (several years ago now) I had to go
> through the thing, crossing out seeds which were not verbatimly designated
> as GMO, but had Patent #'s which were printed within the seed descriptions
> in the catalog.Much of every page got crossed out by the time I was done.
> Haven't seen a Gurney's catalog up close since.
> 3.) On the upside, I did also read a couple of years ago how some
> scientist/s or other had grown an entire new Raspberry plant from a single
> leaf.
> 4.) Maybe once we get the Sociopaths removed from their entrenchments, we
> may actually be able to recover from all this ecological destruction.
> These are some of the things I think about, every day.
>
> Namaste,
> Linda
> From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 8:55 AM
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Extinction of Fruits and Vegetables in 80
> Years
>
> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:
>
> > > If you were alive in 1903, you would have been able to choose from more
> > > than 500 varieties of cabbage, 400 varieties of peas and tomatoes, and
> > 285
> > > varieties of cucumbers.
> >
> > While the erosion of genetic ressources in general and of vegetable
> > varietis in particular is certainly a grave issue, the above sentence is
> > propaganda misrepresentation. Back in 1903 these seed companies certainly
> > were quite local or regional, and most people could propably only choose
> > from less varieties than any gardener with internet today.
> >
> > Georg
> >
>
> You are right, it probably is propaganda and clickbait. More seeds are
> available now by mail order
> or private exchange but if you combined all the seed varieties available
> from all the local sources
> years ago and compared that with what is available now some serious
> varietal losses would probably be evident.
> --
> Lawrence F. London
> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> message archive mirrors:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> human habitat --
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> message archive mirrors:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> human habitat --




--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com




Archive powered by MHonArc 2.6.24.

Top of Page