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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Larry / George / The Extinction of Fruits and Vegetables in 80 Years

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  • From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Larry / George / The Extinction of Fruits and Vegetables in 80 Years
  • Date: Thu, 21 May 2015 19:24:28 +1200

Yes Georg...its diverse viewpoints we need, to keep a balance, I feel.

This one attached arrived in between our emails...a different view which
many are attaching themselves to

Steve

On 21 May 2015 at 19:03, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:

> My late father, a geologist by profesion, used to refer to mankind as an
> index fossil. I personally don’t see mankind’s extintion anywhere near. I
> do see the real chance for a drastic decline and destruction - however,
> being affine to deep ecology I also see a real chance for unprecedented and
> currently hardly imaginable breakthrough. I mean, imagine, after having
> graciously floated in the perfect surroundings of a womb for all your life,
> fed and cared for, you didn’t even have to breathe, then things got uptight
> a bit, leaving you with less wiggle space but it was still alright and felt
> very secure in it’s tightness - and then all of a sudden you find yourself
> in a life-or-death struggle, your safe surroundigs seem to try to kill you,
> blood all over, no oxygen, panicking and otherwise alarming emotions
> flooding in from the ourside. Hard to believe that all this is part of the
> plan, everything is gonna be allright, and life will be great and full of
> possibilities that you cannot even think of as of yet. I trust in life, and
> mankind is in my eye just a expression of life, never separate even if it
> itself believes so. Or in other words: I do not think we have to save the
> world, but we do have to (continoue to) follow our hearts and live out our
> best intentions to the best of our abilities - but anxiety doesn’t help,
> neither does enemy-mindedness.
> Some encouraging biology-philosophy can be "Spontaneous evolution" by
> Bruce Lipton
> and a very practical guide to implement social change: "Reinventing
> organisations" by Fredric Laloux (this is downloadable on a pay-as-you-like
> base)
>
> Georg
>
>
>
> > is real we do know that. The other reality is that species man is a
> > species. What indicators will we recognise when we evolve to this state ?
> > Will it be through a number of elements ? Will it be largely due to
> > resource depletion ? Will it be due to suffocation from our own deficant
> or
> > wastes ? Or will we have the added element of annihilation ? There is
> > thinking about that groups within the controlling pyramid of power (PoP
> > )certainly have plans in mind and are evolving them.
> >
> > What we can do about it is the great challenge ? Obviously we can not
> > overpopulate this planet. That must be a given ? So zero or reverse
> > population growth is certainly a consideration. PoP have this in their
> > sights. Shall we just sit back and watch ? or recognise real solutions
> that
> > will work ? Ecologically Sustainable Resilient Communities. The work of
> my
> > Masters and PhD...Steve Hart
> >
> > On 21 May 2015 at 10:10, Linda Ray <lindaray@att.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Guys :-),
> >> This is not to take away from your very valid point/s, because extincton
> >> IMO is a real and in-our-faces problem today.
> >> Additional points:1.) I have also noticed that many seed companies in
> the
> >> past seem to have "re-named" varieties in an attempt to get some kind of
> >> pseudo-proprietary control over their seed-selling markets or customer
> >> bases, and I am absolutely certain that the same thing goes on today.
> For
> >> example same bean, 3 different names.
> >> I do think there is less of it now, but I am sure it still goes on, from
> >> what I have seen in seed catalogues.
> >> 2.) I also don't trust many "new" seed varieties not to be GMO :(. For
> >> instance, in my Gurney's catalog (several years ago now) I had to go
> >> through the thing, crossing out seeds which were not verbatimly
> designated
> >> as GMO, but had Patent #'s which were printed within the seed
> descriptions
> >> in the catalog.Much of every page got crossed out by the time I was
> done.
> >> Haven't seen a Gurney's catalog up close since.
> >> 3.) On the upside, I did also read a couple of years ago how some
> >> scientist/s or other had grown an entire new Raspberry plant from a
> single
> >> leaf.
> >> 4.) Maybe once we get the Sociopaths removed from their entrenchments,
> we
> >> may actually be able to recover from all this ecological destruction.
> >> These are some of the things I think about, every day.
> >>
> >> Namaste,
> >> Linda
> >> From: Lawrence London <lfljvenaura@gmail.com>
> >> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 8:55 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [permaculture] The Extinction of Fruits and Vegetables in
> 80
> >> Years
> >>
> >> On Wed, May 20, 2015 at 9:34 AM, Georg Parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at> wrote:
> >>
> >>>> If you were alive in 1903, you would have been able to choose from
> more
> >>>> than 500 varieties of cabbage, 400 varieties of peas and tomatoes, and
> >>> 285
> >>>> varieties of cucumbers.
> >>>
> >>> While the erosion of genetic ressources in general and of vegetable
> >>> varietis in particular is certainly a grave issue, the above sentence
> is
> >>> propaganda misrepresentation. Back in 1903 these seed companies
> certainly
> >>> were quite local or regional, and most people could propably only
> choose
> >>> from less varieties than any gardener with internet today.
> >>>
> >>> Georg
> >>>
> >>
> >> You are right, it probably is propaganda and clickbait. More seeds are
> >> available now by mail order
> >> or private exchange but if you combined all the seed varieties available
> >> from all the local sources
> >> years ago and compared that with what is available now some serious
> >> varietal losses would probably be evident.
> >> --
> >> Lawrence F. London
> >> lfljvenaura@gmail.com
> >> Ello: @ecoponderosa <https://ello.co/ecoponderosa>
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> >> https://sites.google.com/site/venaurafarm/
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> permaculture mailing list
> >> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list
> info:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> >> message archive mirrors:
> >> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> >> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> >> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> >> Google message archive search:
> >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> >> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> >> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> >> http://www.ipermie.net
> >> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> >> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> >> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> >> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> >> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
> integrated
> >> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> >> nature-compatible
> >> human habitat --
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> permaculture mailing list
> >> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list
> info:
> >> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> >> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> >> message archive mirrors:
> >> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> >> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> >> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> >> Google message archive search:
> >> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> >> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> >> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> >> http://www.ipermie.net
> >> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> >> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> >> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> >> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> >> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
> integrated
> >> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> >> nature-compatible
> >> human habitat --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Kia ora
> >
> > [image: Picture]
> > *Steve Hart*
> > *Ecology Architect*
> > *Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
> > Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
> > and Systems Ecology.​*
> > Skype: tipenemanawa
> > Phone: +64 220 75 62 11
> >
> > Permaculture Global Design:
> > www.permacultureglobaldesign.org
> >
> > The Permaculture College of Europe.
> > www.permaculturecollege.eu
> > https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart
> >
> > GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
> > www.permaculturepartnerships.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list
> info:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> > message archive mirrors:
> > https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> > http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> > http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> > Google message archive search:
> > site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> > Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> > How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> > http://www.ipermie.net
> > Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> > https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> > Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> > while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with
> integrated elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> > human habitat --
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.orgubscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture
> message archive mirrors:
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en#!forum/permaculturelist
> http://permacultureforum.blogspot.com
> http://permaculturelist.wordpress.com
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared https://sites.google.com/site/avantgeared/
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers practicing and teaching permaculture
> while designing ecological, biointensive land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible
> human habitat --
>



--
Kia ora

[image: Picture]
*Steve Hart*
*Ecology Architect*
*Designer, Teacher, Builder of Ecologically Sustainable Resilient
Environments, through Urban Design, Architecture, Landscape Architecture
and Systems Ecology.​*
Skype: tipenemanawa
Phone: +64 220 75 62 11

Permaculture Global Design:
www.permacultureglobaldesign.org

The Permaculture College of Europe.
www.permaculturecollege.eu
https://permaculturecollege.academia.edu/SteveHart

GAPPS The Global Alliance for Permaculture Partnerships and Solutions.
www.permaculturepartnerships.com

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