permaculture

[Juan Manuel Burgos <wsknlahunmen@hotmail.com>]

oh, and of course "permaculture" it's nothing more than a tag. and it subject 
of the sazme issues any other tag has.

As it's been said, words fail to describe the reality they are trying to 
express

Same with "DinamiCulture" or whatever term appears!z


> From: permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 134, Issue 3
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 12:01:10 -0500
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> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Re: Impermanence & Permaculture (Jason Gerhardt)
>    2. Re: Impermanence & Permaculture (georg parlow)
>    3. Re: Impermanence & permaculture (Koreen Brennan)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2014 11:09:07 -0700
> From: Jason Gerhardt <jasongerhardt@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Impermanence & Permaculture
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID:
>       <CADEhrO=n9mc7KmYS58pyRZyGfoyuAA0P1DHYPa-rUZ+ekOo-Jw@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Holger, you have my sympathies for what's transpiring around you. Perhaps
> the creative response to change is you going somewhere else for some other
> important work.
> 
> This topic is of interest to me as well. I actually discovered permaculture
> while living in Zen monasteries. I also teach a quite large and growing
> permaculture program at a university that was originally founded by a
> famous (make that infamous) Buddhist monk. The topic of impermanence always
> comes up at least once with my classes there. In my reflections I have come
> to look at it from a couple angles.
> 
> One, Bill and David probably didn't consider the impermanence/permanence
> dichotomy when they coined the term. I personally like the term ecological
> design better. However, permaculture design is unique so it's good that
> there is a different term.
> 
> Two, 'Impermaculture' wouldn't be very inspiring. It's actually what we
> already have. So if we are trying to make things better we should aim for
> something different, while holding in mind everything might come crashing
> down on us at any moment. AND, it's a good idea to get comfortable with
> that. One of my Zen teachers once gave a very serious talk about the fear
> of death/change and how that leads activists to act very ignorantly, but
> that's another topic.
> 
> I think Abraham Lincoln once said, "if you want to hit the target, aim
> high". I look at the principle of Produce No Waste similarly. While it's
> true that we can never get to a place of not allowing energy to dissipate
> (something will always be wasted), it's a better goal than saying Produce
> Less Waste. It's stronger, and leads to deeper action. I think it's the
> same with the term permaculture.
> 
> It's also worth keeping in mind that all words are faulty at accurately
> describing reality. They are fingers pointing at the moon. If we get lost
> looking at the finger, we miss the point.
> 
> I hope you are staying safe,
> Jason
> 
> -- 
> PO Box 4355
> Boulder, CO 80306
> 720-496-9744
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 11:11:39 +0100
> From: georg parlow <g.parlow@gmx.at>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Impermanence & Permaculture
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <BCCFD5EE-8811-434F-8E35-5FC7DFF9F147@gmx.at>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
> 
> > describing reality. They are fingers pointing at the moon. If we get  
> > lost
> > looking at the finger, we miss the point.
> 
> LOL
> we are discussing the finger, don't we?
> 
> Best from Austria :)
> Georg
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 04:55:33 -0800 (PST)
> From: Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Impermanence & permaculture
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>       <1393937733.93696.YahooMailNeo@web161004.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> 
> It is sad that you will have to leave what looks to be a beautiful site 
> that much work was put into! Indeed, nothing is permanent. Hopefully, the 
> war will also not last long. Meanwhile, at least you have surely planted 
> many seeds that will grow and sprout elsewhere, and perhaps may accomplish 
> healing on some level with the war itself. I think as much as anything, 
> that activity we engage in - birth, growth, renewal, resilience, and 
> rebirth, along with the persistence of the human spirit and of the natural 
> world to balance itself, is what personifies the concept of permanent 
> culture. We live amongst a broken people in many ways; things like this 
> remind us, if we have created such beauty that we forget. There remains a 
> lot of healing work to be done!?
> 
> This kind of thing is one aspect that drives me to continue to try to think 
> of new ways that we can work together more closely, to reach out faster and 
> more effectively, to give people more options and choices. I worked with 
> gang members and juve hall in Los Angeles and the reason a kid makes those 
> choices is often because he really and truly believes he has no other 
> options. ?When they can really see there are other choices, some will turn 
> themselves inside out to partake of those.?
> ?
> Koreen Brennan
> 
> Urban Permaculture Design Course Tampa Bay - Feb 22 - May 18, 2014
> www.growpermaculture.com
> www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Monday, March 3, 2014 9:52 AM, Chris Carnevale <c.s.carnevale@gmail.com> 
> wrote:
>  
> You can also think about it as a culture or agriculture that permanently 
> follows the ethics of earth care, people care, and fair share. Similar 
> to how within permaculture methodology there are many tools, techniques, 
> and strategies that can be employed in implementation (and can change 
> over time within a single system), permanent cultures may have different 
> expressions of the ethics, varying from one culture to another or 
> varying over time within the same culture.
> 
> Chris Carnevale
> Charleston, South Carolina
> 
> 
> On 3/3/14, 12:06 AM, Darrell E. Frey wrote:
> > Well, indeed change is the only constant. I have never thought? the
> > permanent part of permanent culture meant a homgeneous and unchanging
> > culture. Rather it is more in the spirit of the our relationship to our
> > planet, to live in each bioregion, and relate to the entire planet from
> > our bioregions, in a manner that? nurtures and regenerates the whole.
> > Permanent as opposed an exploitive downward spiral, regenerative as
> > opposed to degrading . A worthy goal to work towards it would seem.
> >
> > I would hope the seeds you planted in Mexico have taken root and will
> > flourish. Best wishes
> >
> > Darrell E. Frey
> > Three Sisters Farm
> > defrey@bioshelter.com
> > www.bioshelter.com
> >
> > On Sun, 02 Mar 2014 21:47:37 -0600, Holger Hieronimi
> > <holger@tierramor.org> wrote:
> > Hello all-
> >> saludos desde M?xico
> >>
> >> I wonder how PC Activists respond to one of the most interesting
> >> paradoxes in Permaculture, expressed in the very name. I ask you:
> >>
> >> How can we promote Permaculture, presented as a contraction of
> >> "permanent culture" (originally permanent agriculture),
> >> knowing that in the universe there is one basic fact (maybe even
> >> law): NOTHING IS PERMANENT
> >> ???
> >>
> >> More importantly: Nothing is more impermanent than culture. We all
> >> know that culture is subject of constant change & adaption to
> >> changing circumstances
> >>
> >> I think, this is an interesting contradiction, best expressed in
> >> David Holmgens 12th design principle: "Creatively use and respond to
> >> change"
> >>
> >> Its not only that I`m involved somewhat in Zen practice... its a
> >> constant experience all PC designers & practitioners have, working
> >> with nature-
> >> Now, with the reality of climate change, and all the other political,
> >> economic and cultural changes happening right now in the world we`re
> >> living in-
> >> change is more up to date than never
> >>
> >> However, its also a recent experience I have made in our PermaCulture
> >> project:
> >> For 12 years now, we have been developing a site in Michoac?n/
> >> M?xico with PC Principles (see documentation of our work, with fotos
> >> and comentary - in spanish- :
> >> http://www.tierramor.org/GranjaTierramor/granjatierramor.htm#linx).
> >> Now it seems that we have to leave the site for political, economic &
> >> security reasons: In thos very moment, our state is in the focus of
> >> the drug war, mainly fuelled by US dollars & arms...difficult to do
> >> courses or whatever in this environment-
> >> Allthough our site, better known as "Granja Tierramor" (together with
> >> the whole project), has been, for years now , an important
> >> demonstration and learning site for permaculture principles &
> >> practices, it seems that we`ll have to leave the place soon.
> >> Things have been changing rapidly here...too fast, it seems, for us
> >> to respond creatively-
> >>
> >> Nothing is permanent!
> >> Not even permaculture....
> >> Maybe we should call it "ChangeCulture"?
> >>
> >> -- Holger Hieronimi -holger@tierramor.org
> >> TIERRAMOR - Dise?o Integrado
> >> www.tierramor.org
> >> Dise?o de sistemas ecol?gicos
> >> Consultas y asesor?as
> >> Facilitaci?n de conferencias, seminarios, cursos y talleres
> >>
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> > Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech 
> > pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated 
> > elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced 
> > nature-compatible human habitat
> 
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> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers 
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements 
> for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible 
> human habitat 
> 
> ------------------------------
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> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers 
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements 
> for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible 
> human habitat 
> 
> End of permaculture Digest, Vol 134, Issue 3
> ********************************************