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  • From: christopher nesbitt <christopher.nesbitt@mmrfbz.org>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] IPC11 Musings
  • Date: Thu, 26 Dec 2013 15:03:13 -0600

I forgot to mention Wesley Roe as someone from this list I met at the IPC! Hi
Wesley!


_____________________________
Christopher Nesbitt

Maya Mountain Research Farm
San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
BELIZE,
Central America

Country code 501-630-4386

www.mmrfbz.org
www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm




On Dec 26, 2013, at 2:59 PM, christopher nesbitt wrote:

> I came away from the IPC with a charged battery. I think that, despite the
> organizational challenges, the event was very positive. As delegates from
> Belize, it was wonderful for us to meet so many permaculturists, all
> speaking the same language, even if they were not actually speaking the
> same language. We live in a backwater, semi remote, quiet, isolated, and
> have for a long time, so we are disconnected from the world, and this was a
> great way to meet people. I made some great friendships on this trip and
> reconnected with a few people I had not seen in years. We met in groups
> with the delegates from the Caribbean, and Latin America, and personally
> with many many participants. I got to meet several people on this list
> there, peoples whose words I really have enjoyed, and it was nice to see a
> face to go with the names Scott, Koreen, Rafter, Eric, Andrew, Darren and
> Robyn (nice to have met each one of you!). We met some really wonderful
> people.
>
> Perhaps its because I live in Belize and have had a lot of dealings with
> Cuban doctors for various things, ingrown toenail, malaria, dengue and a
> minor stab wound, and we have friends and family members who have
> studied/are studying in Cuba that we had a fairly good idea of what to
> expect. The lines, the food, the cramped housing conditions? Those are
> daily Cuban realities. Most of the participants from the developing world
> did not have much issues with this. Some of the participants from first
> world nations did. All Belizean students who come back from Cuba tell the
> same tales of hardship, and they bring extra toilet paper, toothpaste,
> toothbrushes and other things we take for granted. We brought a lot and
> left it for my partners nephew, who is getting a bachelors degree in
> engineering near Havana. Here in Belize, we sometimes sleep in empty school
> rooms in back villages while working in a community for a week, and did not
> find any of the hardships to be overwhelming.
>
> The gate crashers, in some way, tested the permaculture ethics: care for
> others. We did not have a problem sharing accommodations with four other
> people, strangers on day one, but friends on day five. I am not so young
> that I would not have preferred the relative comforts of the St. John or
> Veldado hotels in Havana compared to the basic proletariat holiday
> accommodations of Los Cocos, but, for us, the slight discomfort of Los
> Cocos was not a terrible issue. There was always enough food, even if the
> food was not noteworthy except for its blandness, and that it took a long
> time to get it. But what mattered was that everybody was fed and housed.
>
> On the same ethic of care for others, the all night debauched disco rave,
> right outside our window, sucked. It was very "un-caring" to have the same
> event every single night at Los Cocos. I could have understood one night,
> but every night? We did not get a full nights sleep the entire time we were
> there. I am definitely old enough where sleep is important to me. That is
> the one aspect I would have changed, and one that certainly fulfilled at
> least some of the Cubans image of westerners as being purposeless, decadent
> and indulgent. That was "permie summer camp", to me, and I would have
> preferred more sleep and more time in presentations or discussion of
> permaculture.
>
> Like Scott, the agricultural part of most of the sites we saw did not >wow<
> me, and I really, really wanted to walk away with an ooh! feeling. All of
> the permaculture sites were nice places, clearly with lots of love and work
> invested in them. Outside of the large urban gardens we saw, which were not
> "permaculture", and one farm, most of the sites were small, and while they
> had components of "permaculture", some of them felt like they had gone
> through a check list and checked off items. "Water feature" >check< "Zones
> 1-5 labeled" >check< "Herb spiral" >check< "key hole bed" >check< I had
> hoped to see more agroforestry and perennial crops, vertically integrated
> stacked polycultures, aspects of permaculture that are tropical specific,
> taking advantage of the year long growing season and the capacity for the
> humid tropics to rapidly create food forests that have staggered and
> seasonal harvest cycles and, when mature, offer very impressive energy
> returned on energy invested. Th
> ere was one urban site we saw that had a large caimito, two avocado, a
> mango, some banana and coffee in it, and at least one large fat pig, and
> that had a >wow< factor, for me, but other than that one site, less than an
> acre, we saw nothing like that. That was my favorite site.
>
> The one site that had that potential, the semi rural site above the cave,
> had a lot of trees, at about three years of age. They were spaced very
> closely, and I can see problems in the canopy by year ten. They also did
> not intercrop any pioneer species, like banana, pigeon pea, pineapple and
> papaya in those areas to take advantage of the temporal window of abundant
> sun light, and the soil and production benefits of intercropping, though
> they did have blocks of those on the same land. I really would have liked
> to see some more planning on the temporal scale.
>
> I think some of the limitations in permaculture site design we observed
> come from lack of access to new or further information. One of the great
> things about permaculture in these times is the rapid transfer of
> information. Cuba, as we know, has virtually no internet, and information
> from the outside world is hard to come by. Like many of the cars being
> locked in the 1950s, and the youth culture in Havana, seemingly stuck in
> the 1980s, permaculture in Cuba seemed to be in a specific time. A lot of
> what we saw came from a series of PDCs which may (or may not) have been
> taught by people with or without a lot of tropical experience, and
> subsequent design work was made without access to further information from
> google, permies.com, this list serve or whatever web based information most
> of us have come to have access to. There were no aquaponics systems, no
> biochar, or... whatever new tools have entered the tool kit of permaculture
> in the last so many years. I wish they had access
> to more information, like we do.
>
> I gave a presentation on "Ecosystem service replication through complex
> stacked polycultures", with a slide show of the work we have been doing
> since 1988, discussing some of the problems communities in the foothills of
> the Maya Mountains face, and the pending problems that need solutions. The
> problems we have here, expanding population density, soil depletion, loss
> of habitat, are not unique to Belize. The slide show showed some things
> that have worked for us, since this land was citrus and cattle in 1988.
> Many of the species we use they have in Cuba, and Cubas soils and weather
> patterns are similar to Belize. The slide show went really well, and was
> well received. It was the largest group of people I have every spoken in
> front of. The Cubans really liked it. I think that is an area, perennial
> based permaculture, with an emphasis on ecosystem service replication, that
> needs expanding on in Cuba.
>
> What did impress me is some of the same things that impressed Andrew, the
> social aspects, open gardens, interpretive signs, community involvement and
> management, some of which may only be possible in a rigid anti-property
> statist model like Cuba. I was impressed with the way permaculture was
> integrated at the community level. I have to feel that in the immediate
> radius of every site we visited, the neighbors were observing and soaking
> up information, even unintentionally. When systems works, as these systems
> all were, they will be replicated.
>
> I was impressed that while Cubans are "poor" in cash, they seemed rich in
> their relationships. My partner became friends with a group of Cubans, and
> we spent a little bit of time with them. The obvious affection between
> them, their comfort and lack of social stratification was evident. They
> were in it together. I also like that we saw that Cuba also have a floor
> below which nobody falls. We saw no homelessness, and the only beggars we
> encountered were admitted alcoholics who were both polite and apologetic.
> The streets of Havana felt much safer than even the tony neighborhoods of
> Caracas, Maracaibo, Lima, Managua, San Jose, Guatemala City, Panama City,
> Mexico City or Belize City. I was impressed with the Cubans.
>
> I also loved the conference and the convergence for the various
> presentations. Quite a few people gave "wow" presentations, too numerous to
> go into here, but one woman, Pandora Thomas, her presentation moved my
> partner and I to tears. Much of what was presented was both inspirational
> and an exhortation to do more. We arrived home excited to work.
>
> The hosts and organizers, to me, did a pretty good job, minor logistical
> issues aside. My four hours sitting in the sun at Los Cocos waiting for a
> bus was spent in comradery with several groups of people, people who were
> delightful and informative. My hat is off to all the people who made the
> event happen, especially Andy and Margarethe and, or course, Roberto from
> the Fundacion Antonio Nunez de la Naturaleza y el Hombre. Celini and I got
> to hang out with a group of Cubans, and the Cubans were the warmest and
> most generous people. On Day One at Los Cocos, Celini made the mistake of
> admiring one of the ladies fishnet stockings (seeing a
> customs/police/immigration official in a mini-skirt and fishnet stockings
> with an ancient S&W model 10 revolver on her hip on the way into Cuba was
> interesting), and the next day she gifted Celini a pair to Los Cocos.
>
> Celini and I got support to be there, a full scholarship for me, and a
> partial scholarship for her, all made possible by very generous people in
> the permaculture community, so we were filled with gratitude every moment
> of the time we were in Cuba, (with the possible exception of trying to
> sleep during the all night raves). I have not been told, still, who came up
> with the funding, but whoever they are gets full thanks from us. If not for
> that support, we could not have been there. We covered our own travel
> expenses, and a percentage of Celinis fees, so we did have funds invested.
> Our cost was not insignificant, but it was in the "doable" realm, and well
> worth it, even on our limited income.
>
> Lastly, again, we found this to be very valuable and eye opening. To be
> amongst other people who are into permaculture was wonderful. We are
> setting money aside for the Latin American convergence in Colombia in 2015,
> and, possibly, in England. To be in a large group of people who speak
> permaculture was a blessing in all ways, one that we had never experienced
> and left us eager to participate in, again.
>
> All in all, I walked away feeling that our time there was well spent, even
> if the tours were truncated, the housing a bit crowded, and the food was,
> at at times, monotonous. The lost time from the farms was worth the
> friendships made and the collaborations possible by my being there. I
> cannot thank the hosts who made it possible enough. And, the Cubans were
> awesome.
>
> _____________________________
> Christopher Nesbitt
>
> Maya Mountain Research Farm
> San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
> PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
> BELIZE,
> Central America
>
> Country code 501-630-4386
>
> www.mmrfbz.org
> www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 24, 2013, at 6:12 PM, Koreen Brennan wrote:
>
>> Thanks to both Scott and Andrew for your thoughtful and illuminating
>> comments. Cuba being my first major convergence, I was overwhelmed and
>> overjoyed by the amount of information and opportunities to meet other
>> permaculturists from so many countries doing many interesting things with
>> the practice. I agree, Andrew, it was hard not to be in heaven, having the
>> opportunity to see Cuban permaculture sites, a number of inspiring
>> presentations and many more inspiring conversations.
>>
>> I too saw opportunities to increase yield and reduce waste, in both
>> visible and invisible structures and Scott's words: "I think that we
>> should be more mindful of our purpose and more engaged in the process than
>> I feel was exhibited during this IPC", resonate with me if only because of
>> the urgency of the situation of the Cuban people, and so many other people
>> around the world.
>>
>> 400 designers in one location could have gotten a heck of a lot more done
>> than we did. How can we accept the feedback loop, learn, challenge
>> ourselves, and increase yield? There appears to already be a move to do
>> this with the N Amer convergence planning, and this is encouraging!
>>
>> Koreen Brennan
>>
>> www.growpermaculture.com
>> www.facebook.com/growpermaculturenow
>> www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 20, 2013 2:12 PM, Scott Pittman
>> <scott@permaculture.org> wrote:
>>
>> IPC11 Musings
>>
>> It had been 3 years since my last visit to Havana and the change was
>> shocking. Many more automobiles spewing smoke from 1950's models of Ford,
>> Chevy, Olds, Pontiacs and various other brands was throat tightening and
>> eye
>> watering.
>>
>> I was in Havana for the International Permaculture Convergence. The first
>> event was a gala dinner in an old estate in the heart of Havana. The place
>> was packed and there was panic among our hosts from Fundacion Antonio Nunez
>> de la Naturaleza y el Hombre as the numbers continued to grow and they
>> scrambled for more place settings, tables, and chairs. The problem was
>> that
>> over 140 unexpected guests had arrived who had not RSVPed their intention
>> to
>> attend. This set the stage for a chaotic two weeks of trying to
>> accommodate
>> 25% more people than had been planned for. It was also apparent to me that
>> most of the attendants of this event were there to party rather than deal
>> with the many issues facing the rapidly growing International Permaculture
>> movement.
>>
>> Permaculturalists from 47 nations descended on Cuba over 400 strong and
>> overwhelmed the organizational capabilities of our sponsors.
>>
>> The conference was held in a large Havana hotel and the speakers were
>> translated into English and Spanish for those of us who are language
>> challenged. For the most part the speakers were English speakers who
>> represented both the well known and the unknown in the permaculture world.
>> I was disappointed in the selections as I was hoping to hear from Latin
>> American permaculture which represents an incredible array of projects. A
>> majority of the presenters were from the U.S.A. and Australia. I was most
>> impressed by Tierra Martinez an Argentinian permaculturalist who presented
>> on projects both urban and rural that are making a difference in the lives
>> of thousands of people through the work of his organization Instituto Na
>> Luum.
>>
>> While the presentations of Albert Bates, Robyn Francis, Andy Goldring, and
>> surprise guest Darren Doherty were very educational and exciting I was
>> still left with the question of where are the Latinos.
>>
>> My sympathy and admiration went to the translators who were faced with
>> multiple English and Spanish idioms and with speakers who seemed unaware
>> that they needed to take into account that their words were being converted
>> to another language. The translators continued with us for the rest of the
>> journey, through the convergence and on the tour and did an incredible job
>> against all odds. Herding cats comes to mind.
>>
>> The conference began what was to be a pattern of standing in line for
>> meals,
>> and standing in line for accommodations; sometimes for over 2 hours! This
>> was again the surprise guests who suddenly materialized the night before
>> the
>> conference. This of course threw the whole schedule of speakers off and
>> Roberto Sanchez, known for his role in the video "Building Community", was
>> doing everything except pulling out his hair, and he may have done some of
>> that.
>>
>> Our final day in Havana was an urban tour of permaculture projects. I had
>> seen most of the projects three years ago so I only went on the morning
>> half
>> of the tour. I once again was disappointed in most of what I saw. This
>> was definantly not permaculture! Sorry. It reminded me of the ubiquitous
>> "herb spiral" which monotonously decorates every first permaculture design.
>> I saw keyhole gardens where the key hole was too small to accommodate the
>> knees of the gardener, paths that were considerable larger than the
>> vegetable beds, and a shocking lack of food amidst the ornamentals. I
>> certainly appreciated the proud gardeners as they took us through their
>> home
>> gardens pointing out the salient parts but it seemed more beginning "master
>> gardener" level than having been designed.
>>
>> Is this sour grapes? I don't think so, I am attempting to inject a little
>> realism into an event that took thousands of dollars, and gallons of fuel
>> to
>> bring to fruition and I think that we should be more mindful of our purpose
>> and more in engaged in the process than I feel was exhibited during this
>> IPC.
>>
>> I spent a lot of time reflecting on what is being taught, in the world at
>> large, as permaculture? Is there any continuity in permaculture design
>> from
>> country to country, how subjective is what is being taught, following the
>> whims and limited knowledge of the teachers. This is an important thread
>> to
>> pursue and I will continue this journal of my Cuban trip in the next
>> segment
>> "the convergence" where I discuss my presentations of "Capitalism and
>> Permaculture", "Permaculture Professional Standards", and "Developing a
>> "Permaculture International Aid and Relief Group". These are all subjects
>> dear to my heart and, much to my surprise, were well received.
>>
>> Lest I sound dour and curmudgeonly I would like to say over all my
>> experience was a very positive one and this was the result of many
>> conversations with new and old friends who all share my concerns regarding
>> the state of the world and permaculture.
>>
>> Scott Pittman
>> www.permaculture.org
>>
>>
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>> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
>> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
>> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated
>> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
>> nature-compatible human habitat
>
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> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech pioneers
> -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated elements
> for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced nature-compatible
> human habitat





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