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  • From: Koreen Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Musings II
  • Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 05:20:07 -0800 (PST)

Thank you for taking the time to write these. It is valuable to hear your
views. 
 
 



On Sunday, December 29, 2013 2:20 AM, Scott Pittman <scott@permaculture.org>
wrote:

This is volumn 2 of my IPC11 musings: see attached



"To change something build a new model that makes the existing model
obsolete"  Buckminster Fuller


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>From thomaspauljahn@gmail.com Sun Dec 29 11:41:07 2013
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] A critique of permaculture
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I would go that far to say, the important questions don't ask for numbers.

As I understand Fukuoka: this is what he tried to elaborate on in his book
"the natural way of farming", by addressing the scientists among us.
But more importantly he says, 'natural farming is the perfection of human
being' addressing our spiritual side, that doesn't ask about number to
start with.

Of course this is my personal view. Ant that's why I keep it short.
Just to add that I am a scientist by education.


peace
Thomas


2013/12/28 Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>

> Via David Holmgren's website I came across an article that is a relatively
> accurate critique of permaculture. It's principal flaw is that the author,
> Peter Harper, seems to view permaculture more as a set of techniques than a
> design system, but in part, that is his critique: that many permaculturists
> too broadly apply nebulous principles without testing whether the methods
> they use are giving good results.
>
> I found his comparison of "smart permaculture" vs "cult permaculture" to
> be accurate in nearly every assessment, with a couple of misses.
>
>
> http://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/sites/default/files/The%20Big%20Rock%20Candy%20Mountain.pdf
>
> A couple of quotes:
> "Most people attracted to Permaculture are young, dreamy idealists looking
> for some kind of system to structure their activities and impart meaning.
> It does not matter much whether things ‘work’ because you are not obliged
> to depend on them. It is their symbolic value that counts. I have
> encountered numerous ‘permaculture gardens’ with abysmal levels of
> productivity that have nevertheless persuaded their creators that they are
> virtually self-sufficient in food. A few measurements and numbers would
> quickly dispel this illusion, but Permies just don’t do numbers."
>
> "The permaculture movement has done us a service in drawing attention to
> the possibilities of perennial plants, tree crops and ‘three-dimensional’
> horticulture. But it has entirely oversold the idea, claiming to have found
> the Holy Grail of a low-input/high-output system."
>
> This is why my hat is off to Rafter and others who are out there getting
> numbers.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> subscribe/unsubscribe|user config|list info|make a donation toward list
> maintenance:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> message archives: https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture/
> Google message archive search:
> site: lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture [searchstring]
> Permaculture Institute USA http://permaculture.org
> How to permaculture your urban lifestyle
> http://www.ipermie.net
> Avant Geared http://www.avantgeared.com
> https://plus.google.com/+Avantgeared
> Permaculture: -- portal to an expanding global network of landtech
> pioneers -- who are designing ecological land use systems with integrated
> elements for synergy, sustainability, regeneration and enhanced
> nature-compatible human habitat
>



--
<http://jordforbindelse.wordpress.com/>




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