permaculture

[christopher nesbitt <christopher.nesbitt@mmrfbz.org>]

BTW, have a new game changing biochar stove design. I will send photos when I 
have it made!

C


_____________________________
Christopher Nesbitt

Maya Mountain Research Farm
San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
BELIZE, 
Central America

Country code 501-630-4386

www.mmrfbz.org
www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm




On May 5, 2013, at 8:47 AM, christopher nesbitt wrote:

> I have been busy and wanted to chime in on this, echoing some of what has 
> been said: I think, for me, that I feel an aspect of the in the flesh PDC 
> that would have to be missing is the fellowship of being in one place, the 
> community of group learning. I took my PDC in 1991, and it was 
> transformative, literally. My farm is the fruit of that. Part of what I 
> walked away with was imparted by interacting with other students during the 
> design phase, and during the presentation of the course material. There was 
> one emotional meltdown during the PDC, one bickering feud that flowered 
> into yelling (one of the two participants was me), early morning coffee, 
> late night conversations, and several romances that blossomed, grew and 
> dissipated, or became full fledged relationships. I met my ex-wife during 
> that PDC. So much of what I experienced was related to human beings and 
> interactions, site observation, walking, eating, sitting, talking. That was 
> a huge part of what I walked away with. T
> he wisdom and teaching talent of Michael Pilarski, Rick Valley, Chuck 
> Marsh, Jose Caballero and Mark Cohen would be hard to put into an online 
> format.
> 
> One of the things I have observed in the PDC I attended, which Michael was 
> the lead teacher of, and in the eight PDCs I have hosted and co-taught is 
> the amount of instant feedback available to students. Students frequently 
> have questions tied to an aspect of the curriculum that can be expanded on. 
> In the courses I have co-taught, Albert, for example, is fantastic at this, 
> so is Toby Hemenway. I have seen this many times with Albert, who may be 
> teaching something and one of the students will ask a question, related, 
> but tangential to the topic, and Albert steps back, answers the question, 
> ties it to other things, shows how it is in relation to the larger topic, 
> or a topic previously discussed, and moves forward. I love these downloads 
> because they are responsive and dynamic and informative. How can a static 
> format like an online course be like that? I don't think they can be.
> 
> I attended Antioch College a long time ago. I loved some of my classes, 
> Harold Wrights "Cultural History of Japan", for example. I loved his 
> teaching. A few years ago, I took an online course in grant writing. It was 
> good, and there was some feedback and interplay between students through 
> the "chalboard.com" media. I got a 4.0, a sort of triumphant return to 
> academia after my meteoric Antioch College experience. I liked it. I found 
> it informative, especially since the subject was all about writing, about 
> how to prepare a statement of need that will make funders weep and reach 
> for pens and checkbooks, and subsequently lay down the ways you intend to 
> address the target issue, but I wonder how much I might have learned in an 
> actual classroom. It was nothing like watching John Ronsheim (sp) teach a 
> music class, animated, moving, flowing, changes of tone in speech, change 
> in facial expressions, humor, sarcasm, surprise, dismay, and, above all, a 
> palpable and genuine love of music.
>  I didn't take his class, but merely sat in on one class, one day, and 
> walked away with at least an appreciation of what a Good Teacher can to 
> when presenting material they care about. In that one 90 minute class, 
> there were so many subtle and nuanced relationships to the subject matter 
> that, now, close to 30 years later, I remember it vividly. Can a day on the 
> internet give you that?
> 
> Then there is the question of pedagogy to target audience. In the 8 PDCs I 
> have hosted, we have taught close to 70 Belizeans. Some were funded by 
> external agencies, most were scholarships that we provided with the 
> cooperation of the teachers. Some of the students  were mid-level people in 
> the Ministry of Agriculture, Belizeans who have been trained in schools, 
> have a high degree of written literacy. Some were part time extension 
> officers, full time farmers, farmers whose primary language is either 
> Kekchi or Mopan Maya, and who can read and write, but whose literacy is 
> profoundly visual/botanic. Most farmers are not well served by 
> chalkboard/classroom method of information transfer. Their literacy is not 
> "academic". Their strengths are visual, with a high degree of botanic 
> literacy. They walk through the farm and GET IT. They see what is working, 
> and what is not. They know most of the plants and hone in on plants they do 
> not know. Most of them have no access to computers or co
> mputer literacy. That is an audience that an online PDC cannot reach. Yet 
> they are the people who can IMMEDIATELY apply the information they are 
> exposed to to their land.
> 
> Can a PDC be presented in an online format? Not the PDC I took, with a lot 
> of hands on work, a host of teachers with deep knowledge bases, students in 
> comradery, fellowship, field visits to amazing farmers, and certainly not 
> the ones I co-teach, which are heavy on evidence, using the venue of my 
> farm as a way to present permaculture practices, decades in the making, 
> well developed, having been actively managed with permaculture in mind for 
> over 20 years, and field visits to some of those same amazing farmers. Can 
> the internet make a batch of biochar? Can the internet collect food to send 
> to an elderly feeding program? Can you walk in the shade of an agroforestry 
> system designed and maintained for the last 24 years on the internet? Can 
> the internet put hand in compost? Can the internet sit in the light of a 
> light bulb powered by photovoltaics (well, yes, if the system is solar 
> powered...)? Can the internet use an A frame level and dig a swale? Not 
> really. The internet is flat.
>  The textures can be rendered, but always in two dimensions. There is no 
> smell, no taste, no changing sunlight, no early morning coffee, no late 
> night conversation, no legs touching legs on a bench, no squeak of chalk on 
> a chalk board. I would not consider them to be equal in any way. I am not 
> saying that an online PDC cannot impart a lot of information, it definitely 
> can, but the information will be flatter than a textured, dynamic and 
> flowing PDC in flesh and blood, with dirt under fingernails, groups of 
> people talking with passion, and cold coffee in 3/4 empty mugs.
> 
> And $2200 for an internet course in permaculture? Sorry, but I do not see 
> that! There are so many great flesh and blood courses out there for about 
> half that, why would anyone take an online course for $2200? 
> 
> I don't see the need for a class like this. 
> 
> 
> 
> _____________________________
> Christopher Nesbitt
> 
> Maya Mountain Research Farm
> San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
> PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
> BELIZE, 
> Central America
> 
> Country code 501-630-4386
> 
> www.mmrfbz.org
> www.facebook.com/MayaMountainResearchFarm
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On May 4, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Rhonda Baird wrote:
> 
>> Bill Wilson at Midwest Permaculture offers a partial online experience.
>> People do self-study for the first week's content and come together at a
>> location to do a second week in person. I know that has been in place for
>> some years.
>> 
>> I have to say that I have been developing an interest in organizing an
>> on-line course in combination with a shorter periods of in-person support.
>> I'm surprised at my own interest and the logic driving it, as I strongly
>> prefer in-person, face-to-face experiences. I am particularly thinking of
>> pairing with my state's technical schools as a good place to work. I think
>> one of the keys--and Andrew Millison seems to do this well--is to provide
>> community online and personal mentoring and support for practical work on
>> the ground where the student is located. While less perfect than a
>> residential course, I do think this has its place as time goes on and worth
>> careful exploration.
>> 
>> I have been part of an online community for 14 years that does its
>> education and community-building online punctuated by optional weekend
>> intensives. In fact, I run a portion of the online educational programs, so
>> I know there are a number of challenges and benefits. There are lots of
>> options now--compared to 1998 when I got involved.
>> 
>> walk in peace,
>> Rhonda Baird
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, May 4, 2013 at 12:17 AM, Michael Pilarski <
>> friendsofthetrees@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I would like to see a comparative review of all the on-line pc design
>>> courses offered. Prices, etc. Dan Hemenway has offered them for years.  I
>>> believe there are others in Australia ? (pre Geoff L). I have deep respect
>>> for Andrew Millison and Marisha Auerbach who are offering a new on-line
>>> course.  Who are the others?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I would also like to hear some comments by people who have gone through an
>>> on-line pdc. They would be the best people to judge how well it works. If
>>> there is no one on this list serve who has done an on-line course that is
>>> not a good sign.  If there is no one who has taken an on-line course that
>>> would give it good marks that is not a good sign.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think on-line courses have their place, but just like residential or
>>> weekend pdcs they are not all created equal.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As Peter Bane opines, $2200 for Geoff Lawton's online pdc is not a good
>>> deal.  Geoff L. says his course is limited in size?  How limited, I would
>>> like to know.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael "Skeeter" Pilarski
>>> Permaculture - Wildcrafting - Medicinal Herbs & Seeds
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