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  • From: Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Nth American Conference
  • Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2012 23:08:33 -0500

I don't know that I would recommend forbidding people to come by airplane, but I think the conference can encourage responsible travel methods.

I think it is very easy for privileged white people to make excuses for damaging the planet. I know that I -- as a privileged white guy -- am really good at making those excuses because I of course think that I am one special guy who is doing a lot of important work. But that is exactly why I quit soliciting and accepting presentation opportunities that require air travel. I am going to the Occupy the Food Prize events in mid October at the invitation of the Des Catholic Worker community, but that's a bus trip there and back so I can do that. I've also been invited to a Catholic Worker farm gathering in February, but I am not going to that because it is the week after Ash Wednesday and I would have to fly there and back in order to meet my other commitments here. I mentioned this increasing lack of interest in travel to a spiritual advisor and he said, "Bob, this is evidence of the growing sanity of your life." I shocked by that and of course was immediately tempted to book several long distance airline trips since I am not sure that I want to be thought of as sane but I guess the sanity had so grabbed hold of me that I didn't follow through on the urge.

I think it is a violation of the ethics of permaculture not to question our activities that damage the planet, especially if we are privileged white people.

We may decide to continue to do them anyway, I continue to drive my 1995 Geo Metro about 600 miles total each month, but I keep a record of that and my goal is to reduce my driving each year. I was driving 15,000 miles/year when I made that decision, and have cut my driving in half since coming to that understanding with myself.

And I stand by my suggestion that we should be careful in how we develop our structures. Authenticity is important to all aspects of permaculture and that includes the way we organize our meetings which includes the way we travel to our meetings and what the consequences are for the planet of our activities.

Regarding Mr. Doherty. . . Why we would want to drag someone all the way from Australia to our North American event? Why would he want to come here? If I was Australian, it would take handcuffs and military force to drag me into the United States of America.

Bob Waldrop, Okie City




On 8/11/2012 7:51 PM, Cory Brennan wrote:
http://www.iata.org/pressroom/facts_figures/fact_sheets/pages/environment.aspx


http://www.seat61.com/CO2flights.htm


http://environment.about.com/od/greenlivingdesign/a/fly_vs_drive.htm


Though plane flight creates significantly more carbon footprint, I am not
completely opposed to using planes - it really depends on whether or not what
you're doing is going to significantly offset the use. What if the trip would
lower pollution and land abuse over the long term, at significant gain? I
think it's ridiculous to question the use of planes by people like Darren
Doherty, for instance, when he is planting thousands of trees or revitilizing
significant acreage in a way that could last for generations.

I prefer trains myself whenever possible - quite comfortable, you can walk
around on them, and I can catch up on all the reading I might otherwise never
get around to. Plus in some areas, the scenery is fabulous. I saw my first
bald eagle in flight riding in a train through a remote wilderness area. He
flew right alongside my window for a bit.

Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
www.meetup.com/createclearwater


________________________________
From: Bob Waldrop <bob@bobwaldrop.net>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2012 7:48 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Nth American Conference
I hope that people don't travel to an event like this by air. If
people are too busy to take the bus or train, then they shouldn't go.

I think we ought to be careful about what structures we set up in
permaculture. If we set up structures that encourage people to do evil
-- such as financially support the airline industry which is one of the
major contributors to global warming emissions -- then we aren't doing
permaculture.

Attempting to use permaculture for a bad end is always a type 1 error.
Since the journey is as important as the destination, indeed, it might
be said that the direction and method of the journey is the definition
of the end, we need to be careful and cautious about the means we choose
to achieve our ends, lest our ends be distorted beyond recognition.

Bob Waldrop, Oklahoma City

On 8/10/2012 8:41 PM, Michael Pilarski wrote:
Some of us have thought about, and talked about, a North American PC
Convergence at some length. Much of it not on the list serve.

I have proposed that the national be rotated around between the regional
convergences already happening. Still waiting to hear if any regions want to
volunteer to do the first one.

Another scenario is for a consortium of organizers from different bioregions
to come together to organize the national. The more regions represented the
better.

In the first scenario the national would rotate around the country sometime
on the coasts sometimes in the middle, etc.

In the 2nd scenario a location could be picked relatively central to the
country. Ideally with good access to a big airport and even more important
(I think) on a major Amtrak rail hub. Another criteria would be an active
local permaculture group to help do the local work needed.

Chicago is a great railroad hub but doesn't have a strong permie group (to my
knowledge). Cincinnati, Denver? Bloomington, Indiana? Ideas? At this point
any good offer by a strong group can be put forward.

I imagine that in every region there would be a few or a dozen people who
would work to make it happen.

Lead time. 6 months would be good. 3 months minimum. The networks are fast
these days.

It seems like part of the goal would be to bring a lot of the movement
old-timers together along with a lot of the course teachers and the new blood.

The main purposes being to build the movement, exchange strategies, build
networks etc. Not permaculture 101 how to do a sheet mulch.

A few thoughts.

Michael Pilarski


Michael Pilarski

--- On Fri, 8/10/12, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Nth American Conference
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, August 10, 2012, 4:39 PM

What time frame are we looking at? When would we want to do this? I have
reached out to some on the rez and they have expressed interest.
Koreen Brennan

www.growpermaculture.com
www.meetup.com/sustainable-urban-agriculture-coalition
www.meetup.com/createclearwater


________________________________
From: Steve Hart <stevenlawrencehart@gmail.com>
To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 6:13 PM
Subject: [permaculture] Nth American Conference
Nth American Convergence...keep the ball rolling before the moss takes
over. Shall we pursue the options suggested for the venue being in
Dakota...can we have more detailed information on this possible scenario to
see if it can be developed to reality.

This subject / event is mooted as a Nth American Conference NOT a national
USA Conference for the fact of building up the Continental Regional network
to form part of the continental regions of the world as a sub group of the
international convergence (IPC)..Steve Hart
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