permaculture

[ChildrensPeaceGuild <childrenspeaceguild@yahoo.com>]

Agreed Alia. I think they alienate potential allies through their continued 
(and absolutely unnecessary) use of sensationalism.
 
At any rate, Bob and Toby - may I have permission to share your responses 
with the barrage of emails and messages I have gotten with the headline 
"Oregon Criminalizes Permaculture?"
 
Thanks. 

 
From: Alia Tsang <alia@dietrick.org>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org> 
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Fwd: Oregon criminalizes permaculture - rainwater 
collection illegal - violators sent to jail

On Mon, Jul 30, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Andrew Millison <amillison@gmail.com>wrote:

> This seems really sensationalized to me.


That's because it was on naturalnews.com. Every article I have seen on that
site has some sensationalized distortion of the truth. I've seen articles
where they quote half a sentence from a recent scientific article, then try
to claim that the scientists are implying either the opposite of what you'd
get from reading the scientific article, or something far out of left field
that isn't mentioned or even hinted at in the original paper. I think that
site is run by some kind of paranoid schizophrenic...

Alia
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> From: "Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>
> 
> I'm sorry you have had bad experiences with permaculture
> amateurs but that
> doesn't mean that all permaculturalists are ignorant or
> misleading.

Very true. It is my misfortune perhaps to have not met some more skilled 
practitioners.

> 
> If "ideas form the basis of organizations, organizations
> create systems,
> systems become solidified, dogmatic, authoritarian, and
> we're back to square
> one."  Does that mean we shouldn't have ideas? 
> That would certainly leave
> out Mollison and Fukuoka as well as any future Mollison's
> and Fukuoka's.  

Strangely, I am under the impression that the "no-idea, no-method" approach 
is precisely what is central to Fukuoka's 'way' (for lack of a better word.


> I have no argument with you not having a PDC nor do I care
> if you came to
> the teachings of Mollison and Fukuoka through self
> realization.  But I do
> think that you speak from a place of ignorance when you
> criticize that which
> you obviously have had little experience. Your experience
> with a few
> misinformed individuals does not add up to a criticism of
> all teaching and
> practitioners of permaculture.

Fair enough, although I have seen enough reactions in the past to certain 
posts that challenge particular notions to be able to tell the machinations 
of human nature are at work here too, as they also are in the larger world 
outside. Permaculture does not offer an escape from that. And yet we'd do 
well to try and solve that first.

> 
> I know many people who practice the land "techniques" of
> permaculture and
> they have done a good job of it just from reading a book or
> two.
> 

And that is great!

> Wishing you well.
> 
> Scott 
> 

Wishing you the same

Daniel