permaculture

[Daniel Jager <dfjager@yahoo.com>]

> From: venaurafarm <venaurafarm@bellsouth.net>
>
> But Daniel, when one learns the truths of Nature, gains an
> understanding 
> of it on a personal level in a way that you know is unique
> to you and 
> you have not adopted a mindset copied from others, you also
> become aware 
> of the value of the works of others, i.e. Mollison, and
> realize that 
> expanding your own knowledgebase, developing your own ideas,
> your 
> enlightenment, moving forward with your life, incorporating
> the best 
> that you have learned,
> may mean that you need the benefits offered by 1) courses in
> academis 2) 
> courses offered by permaculturists and agriculturists,
> homesteaders and 
> many other teachers and groups who provide resources that
> enhance and 
> append your learning experience and application of your
> acquired 
> knowledge and experience to your chosen path in life. I
> speak for 
> myself. I see this as a sort of preaching to the choir
> issue. We are 
> pretty much on the same wavelength.

I am in perfect agreement. I do recognize the need for academic studies, the 
books by Fukuoka and Mollison, Wwoofing I have done in my early years, etc. 
Of course. But with it almost always walking the path of negation: "this is 
not it", "that is ok but lacks that certain something"

As Gurdjieff wrote: To know all, it is necessary to know very little; but to 
know that very little, one must first know (i.e. study) pretty much.

My question in this is: Can all this (Permaculture) educate that thing in us 
that discerns, or is that already formed and do we just find our way 
regardless of what we are taught? For me, the two cannot be separated. Like 
Fukuoka, I see life in relationship to eachother and especially to Nature as 
essentially a spiritual problem that no external 'method' or 'system' can fix.

> I do not think this is happening on a serious level and it
> will never
> stop the momentum of the permaculture movement or detract
> from the 
> efforts of those responsible for this momentum.
> 

I think it has already started. Perhaps you are more positive than me about 
where it will go. I sure as hell hope it won't corrupt Permaculture since I 
do think it has a whole lot going for it.

>  > This is so because most people lack
> > Self-knowledge,
> 
> Very true but permaculture can cause them to look inward and
> reorganize 
> their lives by applying the principles basic to it to their
> lifestyles, 
> learning from that and turning this process into a feedback
> system.
> Keeping a journal helps also.

Fair enough.

> 
> > and adore 'systems', 'protocols', 'methods' and the
> > like. Yet without adequate Self-knowledge, any endeavor
> to 'improve
> > our lot' is doomed to fail. Ideas form the basis of
> organizations,
> > organizations create systems, systems become
> solidified, dogmatic,
> > authoritarian, and we're back to square one.
> 
> Also very true. Try not to let your dogma eat your karma.
> 
> LL
> 

Thanks Lawrence,

Daniel