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  • From: christopher nesbitt <christopher.nesbitt@mmrfbz.org>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture - important issues
  • Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 19:22:31 -0600

Toby,

Thank you for answering this, and doing it so well.

Viva Le Trolles!

C
On May 3, 2012, at 6:36 PM, Toby Hemenway wrote:

>
> On May 3, 2012, at 3:03 PM, Oystein Tandberg wrote:
>
>> :-) Thank you, Toby, for your kind reply - you produce NO arguments though
>
> There are a few in there, if you know what an argument is. These sites,
> however, produce no relevant arguments.
>
>> 1. Destructive man made climate change -
>> http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/
>
> This website is a superb example of the same old pseudoscientific soundbite
> ambiguities, distortions, and a few outright lies, that have been shown to
> be false over and over again. Zombie arguments: why won't they die? Their
> point amounts to "climate is always changing." It is designed to influence
> the ignorant. It's not worth my time to make the same corrections that have
> been made by good scientists hundreds of times, but there are about 400
> websites out there that cite research data (instead of stories, like that
> website) that specifically refute this garbage. With all that out there,
> you have to be working hard not to have these falsehoods corrected.
>>
>> 2. Overpopulation - http://overpopulationisamyth.com/
>
> What a smokescreen. For example, they say we have enough food. Yes, we do,
> for now, but that is a typical distraction that hides the real issue. Their
> argument, "we are producing more food now on less land" is just
> stupid--it's because of oil, which is non-renewable, and it's really sick
> food that causes obesity, diabetes and heart disease, grown at a terrible
> ecological cost. No problem there! The site is full of poor or "inside a
> small box" thinking like that. Their main argument, another distraction,
> is that overpopulation is not the cause of poverty, disease, and war. Well,
> duh. But to then conclude that a large population doesn't cause problems is
> really bad reasoning. The true problem with a large human population is its
> ecological consequences and overexploitation of resources which then cause
> collapse of both the human and non-human realm (it's happened many times),
> which they completely ignore.
>
> And, I had to laugh when they wriggled out of it all by stating that
> population will soon begin to drop, anyway, which tells me that in their
> hearts they know that it is indeed a problem, but we don't need to worry
> about it because it will be naturally checked (uh, by running out of
> food?). Really poor thinking.
>
> I've already agreed that a healthy organism is much less likely to succumb
> to infection. The arguers try to make a sensational story out of nothing,
> relying for it on the layperson's confusion around the many meanings of
> "cause," which has vexed philosophers for 2500 years (same with the
> population website: what "causes" poverty?). They aren't saying anything
> that a virologist would disagree with, but the bottom line is that without
> an infectious agent, there will be no infection. Yes, people in good health
> rarely get sick (circular reasoning?). Healthy tissue resists infection.
> Poor health causes infection. Viruses cause infection. All are true, they
> just use the concept of "cause" differently. This is immediately apparent
> if you ever studied logic or philosophy. Apparently, few have.
>
> I'll stop there, because the lame excuses for thinking on these sites are
> really just awful and a waste of my time, although it's always fun to wade
> into the garbage pits on the internet. But that people fall for it makes me
> sad.
>
> Toby
>>
>> 3. Viruses - http://www.virusmyth.org/
>>
>> 4. Pasteur - http://www.whale.to/a/lost_history_of_medicine.html
>>
>> best regards
>> Øystein
>>
>>
>>
>
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_____________________________
Christopher Nesbitt

Maya Mountain Research Farm
San Pedro Columbia, Toledo
PO 153 Punta Gorda Town, Toledo
BELIZE,
Central America

www.mmrfbz.org







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