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  • From: ChildrensPeaceGuild <childrenspeaceguild@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture
  • Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 06:46:29 -0700 (PDT)

While Toby has already succinctly debunked these points, I would like to
point out that #2 overpopulationisamyth was funded by a pro-life, neo-con
institute with ties to PNAC (Project for a New American Century).
 
To spare you having to sit through the video, here are a few highlights:

“Early humans spent a good deal of time hungry, cold, and without shelter”
and faced a “hard life of meeting our basic needs.”

This tired old Hobbesian adage (a variant on his view that life before
civilization was “nasty, brutish, and short”) has been disproven by
anthropologists (Marshall Sahlins, Richard Lee, Pierre Clastres, et al.)

Also, according to the video, demographers (such as Julian Simon who believed
finite resources can be converted to infinite wealth) claim: "As our numbers
have grown, so has our average standard of living.”

And just how exactly do they measure the standard of living? "Per capita
income, amount of calories consumed, and average height."
In other words, by using the measurements favored by Western industrial
civilization.


 




From: Oystein Tandberg <oystein_tandberg@yahoo.no>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 3, 2012 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture -
important issues

:-) Thank you, Toby, for your kind reply - you produce NO arguments though,
so here are some links, so you can read up:-) 

1. Destructive man made climate change -
http://www.globalwarminghysteria.com/ten-myths-of-global-warming/

2. Overpopulation - http://overpopulationisamyth.com/

3. Viruses - http://www.virusmyth.org/ 

4. Pasteur - http://www.whale.to/a/lost_history_of_medicine.html

best regards
Øystein




--- Den tor 2012-05-03 skrev Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>:

> Fra: Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com>
> Emne: Re: [permaculture] Maintaining the standards of permaculture -
> important issues
> Til: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Dato: Torsdag 3. mai 2012 13.37
> On May 3, 2012, at 2:18 AM, Oystein
> Tandberg wrote:
>
> > I don't want to make this a long e-mail; so I'll just
> jump to the conclusions:
> >
> Sure, I'll fall for it. Anyone who reads my stuff knows I
> love ideas that overturn the conventional wisdom. And I've
> looked at all the evidence for these statements before, in
> detail, because I am naturally sympathetic to revisionism.
> They are each nonsense.
>
> > 1. Humans are not in charge of the climate (so the
> permaculture response
>
> While it is literally true that no one is in charge of the
> climate, those words are a soundbite straight from
> corporate-funded think tanks. Not being a climate scientist,
> I must rely on experts here, and I tend to side with 99% of
> the world's climate scientists rather than a handful of
> oil-company mouthpieces making zombie statements that will
> not die when disproved. Follow the money: the
> anti-climate-change propagandists work for the carbon
> industry.
>
> > 2. Exponential human growth (overpopulation) is a myth.
>
>
> The human population is doubling at decreasing intervals.
> That is, by definition, exponential growth, so this
> statement is mathematically ignorant. As for it being a
> problem, population growth is now being sustained by fossil
> fuel-based food. Maybe we'll find something else as oil runs
> out, but we are already seeing huge declines in food yields
> from overuse of soils (I did population genetics work for a
> while; I recognize the signs of overpopulation.) Maybe
> having one species use 40% of the Earth's annual production
> is sustainable, but if population doubles again, so does
> that number. Anyone who doesn't think human impact is a
> problem should start drinking from the nearest river, and
> see how long you live. I suggest a great video called
> "Arithmetic, Population, and Energy" as a good look at what
> population growth means.
> http://www.albartlett.org/presentations/arithmetic_population_energy_video1.html
>
> These last two are way off topic, but they are fun for me.
>
> > 3. Viruses, as infectious microorganisms, is a myth.
>
> Now we're in my field. I did immunology and genetics
> research for 15 years. I have used viruses to cause
> infections in otherwise healthy organisms. Their entire
> genetic machinery is designed to infect; their genes have
> been independently used to cause infections, and to do
> everything needed to infect healthy organisms. They are
> little miracles, cleverly designed to cause infection
> because it they cannot reproduce without infecting a host;
> it's their raison d'etre. Also, it's difficult to explain
> how a killed virus can confer immunity against a live virus,
> even in very unhealthy people, without viruses being a cause
> of infection.
>
> > 4. Pasteur was wrong - an infection is always a
> secondary illness; infections arise after tissue has been
> damaged, by malnutrition or intoxication. (PR: enrich the
> blood for good health, like you would enrich the soil for
> good growth)
>
> People who say this have not read Pasteur. He was not
> "wrong." He knew that otherwise healthy organisms throw off
> infections much faster than sick ones. And I'd be careful
> with statements that include the word "always."
>
> I suggest getting into the best shape possible and then
> letting an Ebola-sick monkey spray blood on you, or stay in
> a room dusted with with hanta-virus mouse turds. It may
> change your mind about viruses.
>
> These arguments take advantage of the fact that most people
> have not been taught to do critical thought, and get sucked
> in by fallacious bits of sophistry that match their politics
> and temperament, since they don't have the mental tools to
> properly evaluate them. As Dick Cheney reportedly said, "you
> can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are
> the ones we're looking for." Like I say, I love to upset the
> conventional wisdom, but promoting these dead-wrong, zombie
> arguments can do real harm to real people.
>
> Now back to the important stuff.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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“Early humans spent a good deal of time hungry, cold, and without shelter”
and faced a “hard life of meeting our basic needs.”
 
This tired old Hobbesian adage (a variant on his view that life before
civilization was “nasty, brutish, and short”) has been disproven by
anthropologists (Marshall Sahlins, Richard Lee, Pierre Clastres, et al.)

Also, according to the video, demographers (such as Julian Simon who believed
finite resources can be converted to infinite wealth) claim: "As our numbers
have grown, so has our average standard of living.”
 
And just how exactly do they measure the standard of living? "Per capita
income, amount of calories consumed, and average height."
In other words, by using the measurements favored by Western industrial
civilization.
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Subject: [permaculture] New mailing list for those interested: SERAnet --
Socially and Ecologically Responsible Agriculture Network
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-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [SANET-MG] Designed to Fail: Why Regulatory Agencies Don�t
Work
Date: Fri, 4 May 2012 10:06:41 -0500
From: Douglas Hinds <cedecor@GMX.NET>
Reply-To: Sustainable Agriculture Network Discussion Group
<SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU>, Douglas Hinds <cedecor@GMX.NET>
To: SANET-MG@LISTS.IFAS.UFL.EDU

Hi saneters and sanent watchdogs,

On 4/30/2012 7:20 PM, jonathan latham wrote:

> Dear Friends and Colleagues
>
> Designed to Fail: Why Regulatory Agencies Don�t Work by William
> Sanjour (1) is published today by Independent Science News
> http://independentsciencenews.org/health/designed-to-fail-why-regulatory-agencies-dont-work/
>
>
> Synopsis: Deepwater Horizon, the Financial System Meltdown, the Big
> Branch Mine explosion, BPA, Vioxx, as well as many others, were all
> preventable disasters characterised by the failure of government
> regulatory agencies. Across the board, agencies such as the FDA, EPA,
> SEC, OSHA, and others, are failing to fulfill their Congressional
> mandates of protecting the public and the environment. Repeated and
> systemic failures across widely varying jurisdictions suggest that the
> problems with effective regulation run much deeper than leadership,
> competence or corruption.

The principle underlying factor responsible for the absence of of
effective regulation in the USA is the corrupt nature of America's
Political System itself, a system driven by money and owned by those
that supply it.

Both legislators and the the executive branch need a cash flow to
transmit their message to the public and those that have it use it to
insure that their interests -and no one else's- receive the attention
they require in order to impose an agenda that frequently runs counter
to that of the public interest.

In other words: Until private funding is removed from the political
process (setting strict term limits would also help), socially and
environmentally responsible governmental behavior is unlikely to occur.

One subtle example of the depth of the corruption: If I were to tell
you to write your Congressman and ask him to legislate him or herself
out of a job, my message wouldn't even appear on this USDA sponsored
mailing list.

I might as well remind you that these kinds of themes can be freely
discussed on the Socially and Environmentally Responsible Agriculture
Network mailing list <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/seranet>
(although other posting restrictions -i.e. no personal attacks- may
apply). Obviously, we are talking about an uphill fight to induce a
change that never-the-less MUST take place in order for any real
progress at all to occur in American (or anywhere else, for that
matter). After all, manipulating public policy (and suppressing
inconvenient information) for it's own destructive interests (the public
health and environment be damned), is the ONLY thing corporations like
Monsanto do well.

Please be aware that anyone subscribing will receive a request from me
to identify yourself, along with the motive for your interest in
subscribing, in order to insure that a constructive discussion will be
forthcoming - if subscribers actually post to the list.

Saludos

Douglas


> Based on a personal 30 year struggle to protect public health from
> within the EPA, William Sanjour examines what typically goes wrong at
> regulatory agencies, and proposes some novel solutions: chief among
> these solutions is that the administrative powers of rule-making
> should be separated from those of enforcement. Separation into
> independent organisations of legislative and judicial functions would
> align regulatory activity with the intention of the US constitution
> and the rest of government. It would also remove a chronic and
> debilitating internal conflict that prevents regulation from being an
> effective tool of government.
>
> Extract: "When I was writing regulations, I was told on more than one
> occasion to make sure I put in enough loopholes."
>
> We hope you will circulate this important article. Please communicate,
> tweet, and share it with your colleagues, listserves and networks.
> Apologies for any cross-posting.
> Yours sincerely
>
> Jonathan Latham
>
> 1) Mr. William Sanjour is a native of New York where he attended
> college at CCNY and earned a master's degree in physics at Columbia
> University. His career started as an operations research analyst with
> the Navy's "think tank," the Center for Naval Analysis. He later
> worked as an operations research analyst with the American Cyanamid
> Company and then as a management consultant for Ernst & Ernst.
> In the late sixties he became involved in environmental issues as a
> consultant to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Several
> years later he accepted a position with EPA as Branch Chief in the
> newly established Hazardous Waste Management Division. In this
> capacity he supervised studies of hazardous waste damages and
> treatment technologies. These efforts culminated in the passage of the
> Resource Conservation and Recovery Act (RCRA) of 1976, after which,
> Mr. Sanjour was in charge of drafting regulations for the treatment,
> storage, and disposal of hazardous waste.
> In 1978 the Carter administration, concerned about inflation, took
> steps to protect industry by removing the teeth of the hazardous waste
> regulatory effort. At first, Sanjour fought from within the EPA to
> make RCRA work in the true spirit of the legislation. The agency
> responded by transferring him in 1979 to a position with no duties. He
> then became an outspoken EPA whistleblower. He alerted Congress,
> environmental groups, and the press to this attack on RCRA.
> He fought his transfer and after a year long legal bout, he won. In
> 1980 he was made head of the Hazardous Waste implementation Branch
> where he set up hazardous waste data management systems and wrote
> regulations for the transportation of hazardous waste. However, he
> continued to expose Agency waste, fraud and abuse. He testified in
> Congressional hearings several times and was active in helping
> grassroots environmental groups on his own time.
> When Rita Lavelle (later jailed) was Assistant Administrator in the
> Reagan Administration, the agency retaliated by fabricating an
> unsatisfactory performance evaluation, the only one Mr. Sanjour ever
> received. This too was fought and won by Mr. Sanjour under the Agency
> grievance procedures.
> In 1984, Mr. Sanjour took a break from Agency harassment to go on loan
> to the Congressional Office of Technology Assessment (OTA) where he
> wrote a critique of EPA hazardous waste regulations which appeared in
> the 1985 OTA study entitled Superfund Strategy.
> When he returned to EPA, the Agency had retaliated by removing him
> from his Branch Chief position. Assigned as a Policy Analyst, Mr.
> Sanjour issued regulations for procurement of recycled paper,
> re-refined lubricating oil, retread tires and insulation products in a
> period of only four years. Mr. Sanjour received an outstanding
> performance award for this unprecedented achievement.
> Meanwhile, EPA, with the collusion of the Office of Government Ethics,
> issued regulations to prevent Mr. Sanjour and one other whistleblower
> from receiving travel expenses when addressing citizens groups on
> their own time. Over a four year period, this law was fought and
> defeated in the federal courts by the National Whistleblower Center
> and Sanjour v EPA now stands as a landmark decision preventing the
> government from silencing government employees who criticize the
> government.
> In 1995 Mr. Sanjour was detailed, at his request, to assist the
> Superfund Ombudsman. Here he investigated citizen complaints against
> the Agency's regional offices in their implementation of the Superfund
> program. Although this was a position which well suited him, the
> failure of the Agency to cooperate in the investigations made the
> position pointless. After a year, he was permanently transferred to
> the Technology Information Office where he functioned briefly as a
> policy analyst in an obscure and relatively unimportant post.
> Mr. Sanjour had to fight several legal battles in the Labor Department
> to halt the Agency's continuous harassment, all of which the Agency
> settled out of court. Despite his reduction in status and having to
> continually fight for his legal rights. Mr. Sanjour stubbornly
> continued his government service while assisting grassroots
> environmentalists and fellow whistleblowers.
> Upon retirement he continues to write and speak about regulatory
> reform, environmental and whistleblower protection issues when he is
> not traveling or sailing. He presently sits on the Board of Directors
> of the National Whistleblowers Center.
>
>
> Jonathan Latham (PhD)
> Executive Director
> The Bioscience Resource Project
> jrlatham@bioscienceresource.org
> 001-607-319-0279
> Skype: jonathanlatham2
>
> http://independentsciencenews.org/
> and
> http://www.bioscienceresource.org/
>
> Mail: PO Box 6869
> Ithaca 14851 NY
> USA
>
> "Good with Science"





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