permaculture

[Andrew McSwain <aeromax.way@gmail.com>]

I agree with John and Daniel. I also think that science as an institution
carries the same kind of blind belief that many give to their religious
institions, but I do not reject the mystical. I strongly believe that any
real scientist cannot. That is, after all, where the real discoveries are
made.

On Fri, Nov 25, 2011 at 5:38 PM, John D'hondt <dhondt@eircom.net> wrote:

>
> I too am a scientist Daniel. And I do not think that most scientists see
> their science as a religion. I think most of them start out as idealists
> but
> that most find out sooner or later that profits are more important than
> knowledge. I'd say that at least 50% of professional scientists are into
> intellectual prostitution at the moment and that gives all of science a bad
> name and I still don't think that is warranted or smart.
>
> Let me give one example. Long ago when I dropped my test tubes and started
> farming instead we lost on average 80% of all lambs born to foxes.We could
> not let a chicken out for an hour or it would be taken in broad day light.
> To survive at all I had to do something about the foxes so I found that
> putting up snares was the method bar none to do this. (the tally stands at
> over 850 at the moment)
>
> I could feel while having lunch inside that a fox had been caught in a
> snare
> half a mile away. On two occasions I woke up in the middle of the night
> with
> an urge to go to a certain location and found I had accidentally caught a
> badger (that I released after a bit of a struggle and sometimes a bite or
> two).
>
> This does not fit any present scientific paradigm (except maybe R.
> Shelldrake) but that does not mean to me that this phenomenon should not be
> open to scientific research if at all possible. After all, what other hope
> is there to gather knowledge about this feeling. Is it reliable? Is there
> any way I can stimulate this ability? Can I turn it off? If you don't want
> to call this science then call it curiosity. To me these two are almost
> synonymous.
>
> john
>
>
>
> Yeah, actually I have had more of those experiences, but I wanted to kind
> of
> 'test the waters' on this forum.
>
> I am all for science (I am trained as a scientist myself), but sometimes
> people can take science as a religion and in such cases they are often
> quick
> to ridicule that which is not readily measurable or which does not fit the
> present paradigm.
>
> Glad to see that at least the mere mention of these ideas does not get
> torpedoed.
>
> Daniel
>
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:18:32 -0800
> > From: carolyn anderson <cschampagne@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] "all of Nature has mind and
> > memory"
> > To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >
> > <CAMzZNjyx4M9RJPEmx8k1fVGoBc95C7KkO+4iP+eunoU8kXz4mQ@mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> >
> > I walk in the forest often and feel the communion of all
> > that exists there
> > every time. I have given names to the rocks; hear the
> > trees whisper,
> > breathe and sing; feel the tender-loving-care of the earth
> > under my feet.
> > Of course everything that exists has consciousness.
> > It's consciousness
> > that precedes existence!
> >
> > No need to prove anything to anyone at all. This is
> > an experiential
> > knowing. Science wants data to believe what the heart
> > already knows.
> >
> > Carolyn
> >
>
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-- 
Andrew Edwin McSwain
055(11)8716-2381 (São Paulo)
01(501)681-0439 (United States)