permaculture

["John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>]

I too am a scientist Daniel. And I do not think that most scientists see 
their science as a religion. I think most of them start out as idealists but 
that most find out sooner or later that profits are more important than 
knowledge. I'd say that at least 50% of professional scientists are into 
intellectual prostitution at the moment and that gives all of science a bad 
name and I still don't think that is warranted or smart.

Let me give one example. Long ago when I dropped my test tubes and started 
farming instead we lost on average 80% of all lambs born to foxes.We could 
not let a chicken out for an hour or it would be taken in broad day light. 
To survive at all I had to do something about the foxes so I found that 
putting up snares was the method bar none to do this. (the tally stands at 
over 850 at the moment)

I could feel while having lunch inside that a fox had been caught in a snare 
half a mile away. On two occasions I woke up in the middle of the night with 
an urge to go to a certain location and found I had accidentally caught a 
badger (that I released after a bit of a struggle and sometimes a bite or 
two).

This does not fit any present scientific paradigm (except maybe R. 
Shelldrake) but that does not mean to me that this phenomenon should not be 
open to scientific research if at all possible. After all, what other hope 
is there to gather knowledge about this feeling. Is it reliable? Is there 
any way I can stimulate this ability? Can I turn it off? If you don't want 
to call this science then call it curiosity. To me these two are almost 
synonymous.

john



Yeah, actually I have had more of those experiences, but I wanted to kind of 
'test the waters' on this forum.

I am all for science (I am trained as a scientist myself), but sometimes 
people can take science as a religion and in such cases they are often quick 
to ridicule that which is not readily measurable or which does not fit the 
present paradigm.

Glad to see that at least the mere mention of these ideas does not get 
torpedoed.

Daniel

> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:18:32 -0800
> From: carolyn anderson <cschampagne@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] "all of Nature has mind and
> memory"
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID:
>
> <CAMzZNjyx4M9RJPEmx8k1fVGoBc95C7KkO+4iP+eunoU8kXz4mQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> I walk in the forest often and feel the communion of all
> that exists there
> every time. I have given names to the rocks; hear the
> trees whisper,
> breathe and sing; feel the tender-loving-care of the earth
> under my feet.
> Of course everything that exists has consciousness.
> It's consciousness
> that precedes existence!
>
> No need to prove anything to anyone at all. This is
> an experiential
> knowing. Science wants data to believe what the heart
> already knows.
>
> Carolyn

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