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  • From: "John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] "all of Nature has mind and memory"
  • Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2011 19:38:40 -0000


I too am a scientist Daniel. And I do not think that most scientists see their science as a religion. I think most of them start out as idealists but that most find out sooner or later that profits are more important than knowledge. I'd say that at least 50% of professional scientists are into intellectual prostitution at the moment and that gives all of science a bad name and I still don't think that is warranted or smart.

Let me give one example. Long ago when I dropped my test tubes and started farming instead we lost on average 80% of all lambs born to foxes.We could not let a chicken out for an hour or it would be taken in broad day light. To survive at all I had to do something about the foxes so I found that putting up snares was the method bar none to do this. (the tally stands at over 850 at the moment)

I could feel while having lunch inside that a fox had been caught in a snare half a mile away. On two occasions I woke up in the middle of the night with an urge to go to a certain location and found I had accidentally caught a badger (that I released after a bit of a struggle and sometimes a bite or two).

This does not fit any present scientific paradigm (except maybe R. Shelldrake) but that does not mean to me that this phenomenon should not be open to scientific research if at all possible. After all, what other hope is there to gather knowledge about this feeling. Is it reliable? Is there any way I can stimulate this ability? Can I turn it off? If you don't want to call this science then call it curiosity. To me these two are almost synonymous.

john



Yeah, actually I have had more of those experiences, but I wanted to kind of 'test the waters' on this forum.

I am all for science (I am trained as a scientist myself), but sometimes people can take science as a religion and in such cases they are often quick to ridicule that which is not readily measurable or which does not fit the present paradigm.

Glad to see that at least the mere mention of these ideas does not get torpedoed.

Daniel


Message: 4
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:18:32 -0800
From: carolyn anderson <cschampagne@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] "all of Nature has mind and
memory"
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:

<CAMzZNjyx4M9RJPEmx8k1fVGoBc95C7KkO+4iP+eunoU8kXz4mQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

I walk in the forest often and feel the communion of all
that exists there
every time. I have given names to the rocks; hear the
trees whisper,
breathe and sing; feel the tender-loving-care of the earth
under my feet.
Of course everything that exists has consciousness.
It's consciousness
that precedes existence!

No need to prove anything to anyone at all. This is
an experiential
knowing. Science wants data to believe what the heart
already knows.

Carolyn


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