permaculture

["John D'hondt" <dhondt@eircom.net>]

Sorry Toby,

but I am not a microbe and my house is not made of carbon.
I did the tests with charcoal and found reduced growth and less soil life. 
Charcoal does not work, it is inert imo. And I am confused that people can 
say that during charring 40% of carbon is saved. Imo again this could only 
happen if outside energy sources are used to produce the charcoal. By weight 
only about 5 % is left if the timber is it's own energy source for charring 
and yes maybe 40% of the volume is left. Not the same thing.

Anybody want to contribute in saving the planet from overheathing then plant 
a tree or switch of all electricity for an hour once a week for this would 
save a ton of coal to be burned to produce that electricity. How many tons 
of charcoal do people produce in a week?

The whole charcoal hype is like peeing in the ocean to keep the water levels 
up at best imo. So the one saving grace of charcoal might be that it 
stimulates plant growth and I have definitely not seen any sign of that. I 
see immediate results from compost and mulch. If you want to save or make 
money it does not help if you embed large denomination notes in a resin and 
then burry them which is to me what charcoal making resembles.
Of course humus and OM has a turn over where charcoal has not but it still 
sequesters more carbon. Of course trees will eventually die and decay, just 
make sure you have other saplings growing by then.

And if no person questioned well established facts we would still be living 
in the dark ages on a flat Earth.
john

> On Nov 18, 2011, at 11:31 AM, John D'hondt wrote:
> > I am well aware of the stability of charcoal but that it serves as living
> > space for microbes is pure nonsense. You can't have it both ways. If it 
> > were
> > good for microbes it would not be stable. It is one or the other and you
> > really can't keep your cabbage and eat it at the same time.
>
> Well, you don't eat your house, either, even though it's made of carbon 
> just as your cabbage is. They are different substances, with different 
> functions, just as biochar and humus are.
> > And I also can't see it as a sink for soil minerals. As a slow sink for
> > mercury yes and organic pesticide molecules probably.
>
> Yes, it is a sink for soil minerals. See, for example, "Black Carbon 
> Increases Cation Exchange Capacity in Soils" from the Soil Science of 
> America Journal. Abstract is at
> http://www.biochar-international.org/node/157 though the article needs a 
> subscription to view.
>
> First, here's why biochar can house microbes and not break down. Microbes 
> colonize surfaces. They do not always eat the surfaces they colonize. When 
> they colonize gravel in reed beds, they don't eat the gravel. (Cred here: 
> I  ran a microbiology lab at a large biotech company. We used to colonize 
> inert surfaces with microbes all the time, like porcelain and carbon 
> fiber. They didn't eat it.)
>
> I'm seeing a fundamental confusion between the roles of humus and biochar 
> here that I hope to clear up. Humus feeds plants and microbes in two 
> different ways, while biochar feeds them in only one way.  They both house 
> microbes. The first way humus feeds is by its ability to hold cations: 
> positively charged nutrient ions such as calcium, iron, etc. These cations 
> are not part of the humus; they are hydrogen-bonded to the oxygen atoms on 
> the humus. The cations are donated to the plant or microbe, and are 
> recharged (returned) to the humus by the breakdown of other organic 
> matter. When organisms eat cations, the humus remains unchanged.
>
> The other way microbes (not plants) are fed by humus is when the microbes 
> break down the humus itself, extracting energy and carbon from the humus. 
> This results in degradation and loss of humus. New humus must be formed by 
> a constant supply of new organic matter. Humus is always breaking down in 
> this way, sometimes slowly if there is ample OM or few microbes, but fast 
> if there is a lack of OM. That's part of why OM must be constantly added 
> to soil. Biochar lasts far longer than humus in soil where there is 
> microbial feeding. Humus is not as good a carbon sink as biochar.
>
> Next,  biochar holds minerals in two ways. They can be directly adsorbed 
> onto the surface, and since it has so much surface, it can hold a lot of 
> minerals.. Also, although the carbon in it is positively charged, and thus 
> won't bond to other +-charged cations, it raises CEC by adsorbing 
> negatively charged substances in the soil, which then bond to cation 
> nutrients. This is documented. It then releases the bound nutrients to 
> microbes and plants the way humus does--and thus doesn't break down, just 
> as humus does not in these cases. It also houses microbes but does not 
> itself feed them carbon; the carbon has been largely stripped of the type 
> of bond needed to fuel microbes. Charcoal alone will not feed microbes or 
> plants. There must be other OM present. This is why I am puzzled by this 
> argument. Charcoal and OM work together, it is not a case of one or the 
> other. Biochar provides a long-lasting carbon storage, unlike humus. And 
> OM provides the food.
>
> I hope not to hear the claim that biochar can't house microbes or donate 
> nutrients any more. These are very well proven facts and have a very solid 
> mechanism behind them.
>
> I don't see biochar as a silver bullet. Like everything else, if made on 
> an industrial scale, it be just as poor a product, and just as damaging, 
> as industrial organic food or industrial medicine. But that is the fault 
> of industrialization, not biochar.
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
> >
>
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