permaculture

[Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>]

Thank you for this info, Darren, very interesting!  I will need to find which 
native trees withstand hurricanes in our parts. A more deeply rooted tree 
would find it easier to withstand gale force winds than bamboo, even if some 
of the limbs break. Some of the palms here handle it by being very flexible 
and bending quite far without breaking.  One palm at the site of our PDC had 
its trunk ripped away by a hurricane except for the core, and has survived 
quite nicely. 
It is encouraging to hear about the old variety of bananas - so often the 
heirlooms have "survival" qualities we are unaware of until they are tested! 
In California earthquakes, there is also soil that liquifies, and houses 
built on it are more likely to crumble. I went through the Northridge quake 
in a house built on decomposed granite, and the whole hill moved as one 
during the quake, thus, little damage. A friend was not so lucky, her house 
was trashed in the liquid soils (which were common around the epicenter). 
Chris, In New Orleans they removed the wetlands in favor of development, and 
thus a protective barrier that could have prevented much of the damage. They 
are an absorbent sponge, and can absorb both water and wind.
A deeply rooted diverse forest system has many advantages once it is 
established - root systems can intertwine or graft to each other causing 
quite a strong and supportive structure, and there are different levels and 
types of root systems. Any monoculture such as bamboo or banana is subject to 
stress. A polycrop suited to the soils and landscape should hold better. 
Darren and others would know much better than me what might work in your 
area. 
Good luck on convincing people not to develop simply because nature doesn't 
want them there. In the US, rather than listening to nature and observing, 
people are rebuilding disaster prone areas with the same vulnerabilities, 
just bigger man made levees. 
Cory





--- On Tue, 2/15/11, Darren Doherty <darren@permaculture.biz> wrote:

From: Darren Doherty <darren@permaculture.biz>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Bamboo flood control
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Tuesday, February 15, 2011, 1:31 AM

G'day,

Not all soils become liquid when waterlogged, if they did then a lot of the
dams that people like myself build would have slipped away upon
commissioning. I would suggest some due diligence come into this discussion
and some base understanding of geotechnical engineering especially as it
relates to Atterburg limits and clay dispersion. A wise civil engineer once
said to me, '....you have to know what you don't know!'

Was talking to a mate recently about the post Cyclone Yasi situation in
places like Tully and Innisfail in north Queensland and he has reported that
the only species left on his clients' banana growing properties, following
the 280kmh winds & inundation, was Casuarina equisetifolia, which is they
tell me an invasive in Florida (along with some other Aussies such as
Melaleuca spp. apparently....pretty well everything else including various
species of bamboo windbreaks (B. oldhamii in particular) were totally
uprooted. I asked him about bamboo and he said they were all removed by this
Cat.5 blow as apparently they were by previous Cat 4. cyclone Larry a few
years back.

Interestingly one of his clients after Larry started growing a endemised
banana variety that dated back to the Chinese back in the late 1800's when
they kept most people alive in these parts (as they did elsewhere in
Australia). There were a handful of this variety left and they were noticed
by this guy as having survived Larry. He totally lost his modern varieties
from Larry and so he replanted these (along with the modern cultivars) and
guess what? These old ones were the only ones that survived Yasi! Great
story and reminds one of that classic Fukuokan axiom 'Apply protracted and
thoughtful observation rather than protracted and thoughtless labour'

All the best,

Darren

On 15 February 2011 13:22, wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk <wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk>wrote:

> Cory and everybody else who replied, here is the additional info that you
> were looking for.
> Is this enough or do you need more detail still.
>
> "In fact these areas couldn't have people living there, however the
> government has authorized a lot of constructions. It's easy when they need
> votes.
> When the soil is waterlogged, it melts causing a shift of mass flow, do not
> know if you understand me. Even if the forest, would have a displacement of
> soil I think. A friend of mine told me that the bamboo can not resolve
> because its roots are much shallow. Do you agree with it?
> Any way I would like to propose to the government, first don't authorize
> anymore people living in this kind of area, second, use the areas to
> introduce the bamboo plantation and start develop a bamboo strategic plan."
>
> Thanks again for all the replies.
>
> Chris
>
> --- On Fri, 2/11/11, Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > From: Cory Brennan <cory8570@yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Bamboo flood control
> > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Friday, February 11, 2011, 10:05 PM
> > Would need more info. Are the areas
> > that are flooding being monocropped, cattle grazed, etc?
> >  Floods in US cities have been much worse because of the
> > unsustainable farming practices throughout the entire
> > watershed.  Have wetlands been removed?  If so, rebulding
> > them might be better than bamboo.
> >
> > --- On Thu, 2/10/11, wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk
> > <wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > From: wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk
> > <wenshidi@yahoo.co.uk>
> > Subject: [permaculture] Bamboo flood control
> > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Thursday, February 10, 2011, 10:04 PM
> >
> > Here is a question from a friend in Brazil.
> >
> > "I'm trying to write something about bamboo against floods.
> > I think you have heard about Brazilians floods recently
> > which cause nearly one thousand death.
> > Do you have any experience with that?"
> >
> > Does anybody have any resources or recommendations
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Chris
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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-- 
Hooroo,
Darren J. Doherty
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Autumn 2011 EU RegenAG® Tour with Darren Doherty - Spain, UK, Germany, EU
_________________________________________
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Thanks Toby...I'll check this out and add it to the list...there are a few
others out there as well that I would like to add. All the best, Darren

On 15 February 2011 06:17, Toby Hemenway <toby@patternliteracy.com> wrote:

> Darren et al,
>
> The Biomimicry Guild, Janine Benyus's brainchild, also has a list of
> "Life's Principles" which overlaps nicely with permaculture's. I can't find
> a bullet-point list in a quick Google, and I know somewhere out there is a
> nice graphic of a butterfly with their principles on it, but a circular
> graphic that lists them is at
>
> http://osbsustainablefuture.org/home/section-newsletter/20101spring6isleleitch/
>
> Toby
> http://patternliteracy.com
>
>
>
> On Feb 13, 2011, at 3:35 PM, Darren Doherty wrote:
>
> > G'day,
> >
> > I put this list<
> http://regenag.blogspot.com/2011/02/off-contour-11-permaculture-ecological.html
> >together
> > early last year and have just posted it on my RegenAG
> > *®*** 'Off the Contour <http://regenag.blogspot.com/>' blog. It may
> prove
> > useful to Permaculture educators and designers to use and expand upon.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > --
> > Hooroo,
> > Darren J. Doherty
> > UPCOMING EVENTS
> >
> > 2011 RegenAG <http://goog_1946592595>® <http://www.regenag.com/>
> Workshop
> > Series Australia & Aotearoa/New Zealand
> > Autumn 2011 EU RegenAG® Tour with Darren Doherty - Spain, UK, Germany, EU
> > _________________________________________
> > AUSTRALIA FELIX PERMACULTURE
> > Broadacre Permaculture Design & Development
> > International Permaculture Education
> >
> > Patron Fundacion + Arboles <http://www.masarboles.org/>, España
> > Head of RegenAG®, Ecosystem Investment Management Australia Pty.
> > Ltd.<http://www.eima.com.au/>
> > Vice President New Soil Security Inc. (US)
> > Originator: RegenAG® <http://www.regenag.com/> Workshop Series
> >
> > Web <http://www.permaculture.biz/>
> > <http://picasaweb.google.com/permaculture.biz>
> > PhotoLog <http://picasaweb.google.com/permaculture.biz>
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> > RegenAG® Blog <http://regenag.blogspot.com/>
> >
> > skype: permaculture.biz
> > phone: +61 431 444 836
> > ___________________
> >
> > Note: If you do not wish to be on this mailing list then please advice me
> > and you will be removed from future dispatches.....
> >
> > RegenAG® is a Registered Trademark of Darren J. Doherty
> >
> > This message is only for the use of the addressee. The contents of this
> > email (including attachments) may be privileged and confidential. Any
> legal
> > privilege is not waived by mistaken delivery. If you are not the intended
> > recipient or the person responsible for delivering the email or
> attachments
> > to the intended recipient please notify the sender by return email or by
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-- 
Hooroo,
Darren J. Doherty
UPCOMING EVENTS

2011 RegenAG <http://goog_1946592595>® <http://www.regenag.com/> Workshop
Series Australia & Aotearoa/New Zealand
Autumn 2011 EU RegenAG® Tour with Darren Doherty - Spain, UK, Germany, EU
_________________________________________
AUSTRALIA FELIX PERMACULTURE
Broadacre Permaculture Design & Development
International Permaculture Education

Patron Fundacion + Arboles <http://www.masarboles.org/>, España
Head of RegenAG®, Ecosystem Investment Management Australia Pty.
Ltd.<http://www.eima.com.au/>
Vice President New Soil Security Inc. (US)
Originator: RegenAG® <http://www.regenag.com/> Workshop Series

Web <http://www.permaculture.biz/>
<http://picasaweb.google.com/permaculture.biz>
PhotoLog <http://picasaweb.google.com/permaculture.biz>
Australia Felix Permaculture
Blog<http://www.australiafelixpermaculture.blogspot.com/>
RegenAG® Blog <http://regenag.blogspot.com/>

skype: permaculture.biz
phone: +61 431 444 836
___________________

Note: If you do not wish to be on this mailing list then please advice me
and you will be removed from future dispatches.....

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