permaculture

["Scott Pittman" <scott@permaculture.org>]

This comment by Paul Wheaton leaves me totally flabbergasted; the only thing
that I can assume is that his pc certificate was issued by someone who
shouldn't be teaching permaculture.

How is it that you reserve the right to determine what to leave in or out of
the design system called permaculture.  Can you leave out the 0 in the
numeric system we use in our entire math and still call it math?  I assume
that you could but what you would be left with wouldn't be math recognized
by anyone but yourself.

This is a major concern of mine: that people use the word permaculture
without giving any thought that it may well have been conceived and
developed by people as a whole system of design.  I ran into this with the
permaculture university in Costa Rica, who were giving out permaculture
certificates without having even read the book let alone taken a
certification course.

I think that part of my problem on this list is that I have assumed that we
are all on the same page as far as our understanding of permaculture is
concerned and that is not true at all.  Many on this list think pc is a
technique to grow food or build houses and have no idea that there is a
whole underpinning of ecological science, design process and ethical rules
that underlie all of the techniques.

If this makes you uncomfortable then use another term to describe what you
do, the term permaculture has been understood and practiced for over 30
years and has been reserved for use by graduates of the certification course
described by Bill Mollison and laid out in his book "Permaculture A
Designer's Manual" and his teaching.  I am surprised that anyone would take
it upon themselves to come up with another definition unless it was to get a
free ride on someone else's work; which to me is unethical.

If the rules of this list are to deny discussion of what I consider the most
important piece of permaculture then I suggest we call it something besides
permaculture.  I would still be very interested in the conversation but
wouldn't continue to have a conversation under the misapprehension that I am
talking about permaculture when I am really in a conversation about farming
and village technology.

My thoughts,

Scott Pittman
Director
Permaculture Institute
www.permaculture.org


-----Original Message-----
From: paul wheaton [mailto:paul@richsoil.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2010 4:52 PM
To: permaculture
Subject: Re: [permaculture] the limits of the conversation

> 2) Paul, it shouldn't be remotely controversial for me to note this: if
your
> list of allowable topics doesn't
> include the 3rd Ethic, then the subject of your discussion is not
> Permaculture.

It might not be what you call permaculture, but it is DEFINITELY what
I call permaculture.

> Permaculture minus ethics equals gardening. Gardening sold as Permaculture
> equals bullshit.

Polyculture, hugelkultur, edge, swales .... these things are all
indicative, to me, of a permaculture system that is above and beyond
gardening.

Emphasis on "to me".

And my site is designed to be for those folks that either agree with
this, or are willing to have some conversations in this space within
my comfort zone.  And I will call it permaculture.  And, I think, most
of them will call it permaculture too.

I respect that there are many people that will demand that I live my
life according to their standards and their language.  It is okay for
them to want that.  But if they expect it, they will be sad.

I am open to respecting all permaculturists, whether they embrace the
third ethic or not.