permaculture

[Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop@cox.net>]

 I appreciate the links to the liberation ecology site and the Lierre 
Keith interview.  Is there a listserv or message board where these ideas 
are being discussed?  I'm involved with a lot of low income issues and 
also some community organizing/rabblerousing,  Lately I've been 
preaching the virtues of declaring bankruptcy. I think this has some 
merit as both a tactic that benefits individuals and that undermines the 
established finance system.   I know a lot of people who are so heavily 
in debt that they are in fact slaves of the credit card companies and 
banks.  One of them recently took my advice, and has told me that the 
interior feelings of personal liberation were majorly intense.  The only 
downside, he said, was "now I won't have access to credit."  To which I 
replied, that it is not a bad thing, as the credit system is a way to 
enslave people, just as you were enslaved.

Finally, in regard the tempest which started this thread. . .

I think some good stuff has come out of this, but I also think that more 
is accomplished in a movement by spending not much time critiquing what 
others are or are not doing, and spending more time stimulating 
conversation/organizing/strategy, including offering tools, skills, 
education/training, and opportunities for communication.

Bob Waldrop, Oklahoma City
http://www.energyconservationinfo.org/compendium.htm access to 2 
gigabytes of information useful for implementing permaculture and also 
undermining the "System".

On 9/17/2010 1:27 PM, kevin skvorak wrote:
> hi folks,
> 2) Questions about - fairness, equity, "return of surplus", redistribution
> of wealth, reparations- choose your wording, but however you look at it, it
> is going to be crucial esp as we go (further)  over the curve into decent
> and decline. So much of PC is currently practiced, taught, organized etc
> within privilegded circles, and this is not just a 'moral' issue, but a deep
> ethical one as it challenges our ability to be effective in our goals.
> Fortunately lots of folks are conscious about this, and working on it.  I
> believe Rafter Sass may well be as influential in these areas of thinking
> for the young folks as some of the elder writers have been on other PC
> issues in the past.   http://www.liberationecology.org/
>
> 3)  Questions about HOW we strategize, and organize etc.  I think this can
> be at least partially expressed in this -difference- between "radical" and
> "liberal" approaches to social change.  There has always been alot of
> expression of "liberal" beliefs in PC circles in the past - the belief that
> "aha moments" in individuals can be the drivers for social change and
> transformation, and that individual "change" is the key to our success.  I
> think in general most young people these days resonate more with "radical"
> solutions though.  That doesn't mean that radicals completely dismiss that
> individual changes occur, and that they aren't important, but the 'radicals'
> just feel that this type of change is simply not enough, and never will be,
> and that we have to approach/attack the systems that cause the problems, not
> just the individuals.*
>
> Lierre Keith  is another thinker* that i believe has as much influence on
> young people as anyone in PC circles does, and she illustrates the
> difference between radical and liberal thinking very well:
> http://www.inthewake.org/keith1.html