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  • From: "Diane Frances" <diane.frances@verizon.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] animals in food systems
  • Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 06:54:11 -0400

Rain, this is a beautiful note and reflects much of my personal views on the subject. Thank you for sharing. We have a small farm on marginal land and raise fruits, vegetables, and pastured chickens for eggs only for the same reasoning (and have quite a few hens that are over the hill but still enjoy their retirement with us!). I joined this listserve recently to learn how to do this using more permaculture methods and it has influenced me greatly already. Thanks to all for sharing your knowledge. I would love to learn more about how to create meals that provide balanced nutrition without using animal protein and hope we can start a thread on this subject.

Diane


----- Original Message ----- From: "Rain Tenaqiya" <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2010 3:10 PM
Subject: [permaculture] animals in food systems







I posted that article because it seemed to really sum up a lot of the factors that one should consider in deciding whether or not the use of domesticated animals in food systems would be sustainable. I also liked her consideration of ethical issues. I have been struggling with reconciling the these two (sustainability and ethics as related to domesticated animals). I have no doubt that any domesticated animal could be part of a sustainable system. I even think that most systems would be more efficient and productive with domesticated animals included (not to mention wild animals).

My personal reluctance to involve domesticated animals in my systems are mostly practical and ethical. As a household of two with the closest neighbors each a half mile away, it has been difficult for me to figure out how to have more than just a cat (for killing voles) and fish without having too many fences and never being able to leave our place for fear that the animals would die of hunger or be killed by predators. I'm still trying to figure out how to have ducks. Ethically, I reject caging animals for all or a good part of their lives and regard this as a form of slavery. I also cannot bring myself to kill the larger, more sentient beasts. Even killing fish seems too selfish for me, but I'm trying to convince myself that my situation (marginal land) justifies it. I feel kind of stupid for not wanting to take advantage of all the deer, pigs, and turkeys that live around here and that often create problems for me, when they could be a
solution to my food needs. However, I am committed to an ethic of creating minimal harm, and until I prove to myself that I would be causing more harm by growing my own nuts and legumes than I would by killing these animals, I won't kill them.

Modern people living in rich countries now have access to an incredible number of plants and an abundance of new technologies that make it much easier to grow all the nutrition you need without relying on domesticated animals. Care for the Earth includes caring for all the wild and domesticated animal species on it and each person needs to figure out what this means at their particular locale and with their particular needs. This is a very complex and personal topic that I feel should always be an open question. There is no Ten Commandments handed down by the Universe that tells us how to deal with the fact that life requires death. As humuns, we feel compassion for others and hopefully are always seeking to maximize the benefits to others that we can create, while minimizing the harms.

Rain



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