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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Permaculture wikis & making a major impact

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  • From: Chris Watkins <chriswaterguy@appropedia.org>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Permaculture wikis & making a major impact
  • Date: Sun, 10 Jan 2010 15:14:55 +1100

Hi Bob - thanks for the feedback.

On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 16:38, Bob Waldrop <bwaldrop@cox.net> wrote:

>
>
> One of the values of some of the smaller wikis is that it is easier for
> someone new to wiki-dom to get invo lved. My editing/writing experiences
> for example with Wikipedia have not been good. Generally my edits are
> deleted, and I am not enough of a wiki-expert to figure out how that whole
> editing process works (watching, talking, contesting, etc.) So I don't
> write or edit at Wikipedia anymore.


I'm sorry to hear that, but not surprised. I've been active at Wikipedia for
a few years, and am generally able to work within the system, but the
community has lost its commitment to civility and helpfulness.

Another issue is that newbies often don't understand what is suitable for
Appropedia and what isn't - but that's where the helpfulness and civility
come in. A number of times I've helped people in this situation - e.g.
rescuing the deleted article *Air travel, climate change, and green
consumerism<http://www.appropedia.org/Air_travel,_climate_change,_and_green_consumerism>
* and putting it on Appropedia - and I know other Wikipedians are often
helpful. But the Wikipedia guideline of Please do not bite the
newcomers<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Please_do_not_bite_the_newcomers>isn't
emphasized enough anymore, and I hope that changes.

However other large and active wikis have maintained a commitment to
helpfulness, encouragement and civility. WikiHow.com is one, and
Appropedia<http://www.appropedia.org/>is another. From the admins'
perspective, even when we've been tempted to
just delete or revert an edit that we thought was really bad, we've
generally engaged with the editor in a constructive way. ("Really bad" edits
are rare though - most of what is added to the site does have value and
there's little temptation for top-down intervention.)


permaculture.info, on the other hand
> is, as you say, smaller,undr fewer peolple involved. So it is easier for
> someone new to wander in and start adding information. I looked at the
> Appropedia site, but being big and busy it reminds me of Wikipedia so I
> figured I should go elsewhere to get started. I don't think that the Wiki
> universe generally does a very good job of helping new people understand
> the
> process, and individual wikis almost certainly have their own
> culture/eco-system, and may or may not be supportive of new invasive
> species
> who might wander in looking for a place to put down roots.
>

I can understand the reticence, but if you do try out Appropedia, I believe
you'll have a positive experience.


> So, we need small wikis as a way to help people get involved in wikidom.
>

Or at least helpful wikis :-)

If you want people to also be involved with the Appropedia site, the main
> thing I suggest is to make it easy for newbies to wander in and start
> writing or editing. By this I mean not only plain language explanations of
> the mechanics, but also an introduction of some sort to the Appropedia
> culture.


This takes a lot of work, and we are doing it - but we'd really appreciate
specific suggestions, text for the help/intro pages, and other feedback, so
that we do it better. And by "we" I mean all of us.

Thanks,
Chris

I started writing at permaculture.info because as noted above it
> was small and easy to do. But I also like permaculture.info because I
> have
> a lot of respect for Scott Pittman and the Permaculture Institute.
> Although
> we have never met in person, I have trust in Scott and his projects, so
> that
> leads to a desire to do things that strengthen his work (since I can't send
> him a check for e.g. a few hundred thousand dollars).
>
> I read somewhere that peasants in China used to build really nice
> out-houses
> on the edges of their fields that bordered roads in order to attract
> travelers to their "facilities" so the travelers would leave gifts of their
> humanure which would make the farmer's fields more fertile. That seems
> like
> a good strategy for attracting people wandering by who might be tempted to
> stop and drop a bit of wisdom into a wiki for the benefit of all.
>
> Bob Waldrop, waiting for the snow and ice in Okie Citgy
> www.energyconservationinfo.org
> www.barkingfrogspermaculture.org
>
>


--
Chris Watkins

Appropedia.org - Sharing knowledge to build rich, sustainable lives.

blogs.appropedia.org
identi.ca/appropedia
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