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  • From: Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
  • Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:09:16 -0800 (PST)

Hey Mathew,
It is good soil if not very deep.  When Mt St Helens erupted 30 years ago
(!?!)  I was a second grader playing on the piedmont clays of Athens, GA, a
lot closer to your stomping grounds.  But I'm benefitting from that volcanic
mineral load today here in eastern Washington.  Can't complain.
 
I didn't charge my biochar with tea before burying it.  Guess I should have.  
Think a heavy application in situ would help?  I did mulch heavily and plant
comfrey, chives, leeks, Johnson's geraniums, yarrow, and walking onions
around my little apple though, before I read the first thing about
permaculture guilds, so I don't feel too embarrassed!  I'll know better next
time on the biochar.  Thanks for the heads-up.  Makes sense.
 
You're not too far away from Lawrence London.  I would've assumed you were
dealing with red clay too, but it sounds like you're farther down-slope.  I
started organic gardening in Gainesville, Florida several years ago while I
was finishing college.  Could've used some info on biochar back then!! 
(Although rosemary, sage, and jasmine grow like madmen in chip mulched 
thermic sands among the live oaks.)
 
Thanks for the FAQ.
 
Tripp out.



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 2:11 AM


Tripp:

I'm in the city of Raleigh, NC, on a tiny fragment of land with 150 year old
trees.  I'm on sandy, alluvial loam, in a warm temperate climate.  The last
owner was as crazy about soil as I am, and the soil has been receiving horse
and chicken manure for at least a decade.  I don't use biochar, although I
plan to make some because I like to play with fire.

As far as your experiences, did you pre- load the charcoal with compost tea
before using it?  If you don't, it actually takes nutrients out of
circulation until it becomes "charged".  But it sounds like great soil; I
don't know how biochar would improve it.

Here's a good FAQ on biochar in the garden
http://biochar.pbworks.com/FrontPage


On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>wrote:

> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "I personally believe that biochar will prove to revolutionize agriculture
> in
> some regions, but I also think there are places it won't have much effect
> at
> all.  It is an exciting field of study where back yard experimenters can
> make real discoveries."
>
> I agree!  Interesting stuff.  I assume you have your own trials going.
> Tell me more about the specifics.  What's your climate like?  Soil type?
> Water regime?  How many seasons have you been at it?
>
> I can tell you that one season of using it in my garden with one young
> apple tree didn't produce any noticeable results compared to other fruit
> trees sans biochar.  It's the only apple I have, so not totally objective,
> but the Italian prune plum seems to be similar in pace.  My soil is volcanic
> loam about 8" deep before you get to a confining density of glacial
> moraine.  Climate-wise, we're semi-arid steppe with hot, dry summers
> followed by cold, snowy winters, ~16" of annual precip, mostly frozen.  So
> not much leaching to worry about...
>
>
>
> The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
> -Chinese proverb
>
>
> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 6:16 PM
>
>
> As I understand it, biochar improves nutrient holding ability but doesn't
> help soil texture and water holding ability like organic matter. On the
> scale of a bacteria, a particle of biochar has a labrynthine structure. It
> may provide good habitat for the soil food web, but that is a dificult area
> to study.
>
> I personally believe that biochar will prove to revolutionize agriculture
> in
> some regions, but I also think there are places it won't have much effect
> at
> all.  It is an exciting field of study where back yard experimenters can
> make real discoveries.
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com
> >wrote:
>
> > So basically, more fines/OM in your soil = more CEC = less need for
> > biochar.  Is there a soil texture at which addition of biochar actually
> > becomes deleterious?
> >
> > Tripp
> >
> >
> >
> > The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
> > -Chinese proverb
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
> > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 5:49 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >Burning creates smoke, a pollutant
> >
> > Proper biochar kilns produce very little smoke, because they consume
> nearly
> > all of the combustion byproducts, similar to a rocket stove.
> >
> > > >and materials burned should be cold composted and then returned to the
> > > soil using appropriate tillage methods
> >
> >
> > That doesn't work well in the tropics, because soil organisms degrade the
> > humus and rain washes it away too quickly.  Biochar lasts longer in soil.
> >
> > As I understand it, the main *proven* benefit of biochar is that it
> > provides
> > cation exchange capacity.  Some soils in temperate climates are in dire
> > need
> > of increased CEC, others have different needs.
> >
> > >From the pictures I've seen on your blog, Larry, you are working good
> > peidmont clay.  That has good cation exchange capacity, but needs organic
> > matter to build soil structure.  Biochar probably wouldn't help much
> there.
> > But on the sandy soils of Eastern NC, biochar could enhancce soil
> fertility
> > significantly by holding onto nutrients.
> >  _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
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>From slowfoodguy@yahoo.com Fri Jan 8 00:28:48 2010
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:28:40 -0800 (PST)
From: Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
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Subject: Re: [permaculture] skeeter talking about nettles and bones
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That YouTube video's not your swinging permie singles ad?



The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 

--- On Fri, 1/8/10, Michael Pilarski <friendsofthetrees@yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Michael Pilarski <friendsofthetrees@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] skeeter talking about nettles and bones
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, January 8, 2010, 4:51 AM


Wow Paul,

One of the first youtubes of Skeeter.  Most of it made sense, but next time,
I'll bring my make-up person with me. 

Here are a few sentences I just penned to see if I can get it in my email
newsletteer about to go out.

Another business proposal:

Agroforestry & Wildcrafting Videos & Youtubes

Michael Pilarski is looking for one or more persons to produce some
agroforestry and wildcrafting videos and youtubes. I would like to do some
video documentation of my 5 agroforestry systems developed over the last 23
years.  Also I would like to capture some of  my wildcrafting knowledge in
video form to educate more people about useful and sustainable wildcrafting
methods. 2010 timeframe, especially this spring and early summer.  There are
lots of opportunities for the longer time frames also.  Contact Michael.

I owe you a swinging permies single ad and countless blogs,

till then

best wishes, 

did you just get my first email newsletter?  With my Montana workshops in it?
If not let me know.

skeeter


--- On Thu, 1/7/10, paul wheaton <paul@richsoil.com> wrote:

From: paul wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
Subject: [permaculture] skeeter talking about nettles and bones
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 8:34 PM

I took this video at the washington state permaculture convergence in
september.  Since skeeter is a regular on this list, those of you that
have not met him face-to-face might be able to see the person behind
the words!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvgyhBA5uQM
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>From singkong@gmail.com Fri Jan 8 00:46:20 2010
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Thanks for all the responses. A brief response to Lawrence for now, and I'll
follow up with some concise responses to other posts over the next few days.


On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 08:04, Lawrence F. London, Jr. <
venaurafarm@bellsouth.net> wrote:

> Chris Watkins wrote:
>
> > There's a tension between the creativity of people doing their own thing,
>
> Its no different from commercial farming, you either own the land you
> farm or you lease it. If that land needs upgrading in order to make it
> productive enough for a profit to be made and you're leasing it then
> the improvements belong to the land owner. If you own your own land you
> can spend as much time, energy and money on it and it all belongs to
> you, though others benefit from the products you sell them that come
> from your land.
>
> Maybe many if not most people interested in spending time developing an
> online website and filling it out with resources of interest to them and
> others want to own that webspace themselves; own in the sense that they
> have complete control over all of their data and can pick it up at any
> time and move it wherever else they choose.
>
> If they choose to do their favorite project in collaboration with others
> on someone else's site then they have limited control over the fate of
> their data and its value as an end product as it relates to the work of
> the other collaborators at that site, i.e. what is the value of their
> work and to what extent does their work contribute to the overall value
> of the whole project, does it detract, does it add or is the rest of the
> work contributed of less enough value that theirs was wasted on the
> collaboration and they should have worked on their project alone or with
> select people invited in?
>

You maintain as much control and freedom as you like, at the same time as
collaborating with people from different places around the world, and
different organizations. In the end, we all own it, because we choose to
share - that's the great thing about a wiki.

Appropedia (as with many other wikis, including permaculture.info) is
licensed under an open license, specifically the Creative Commons
Attribution ShareAlike license - as noted in the footer of every page. This
means you're free to use, adapt and share it, personally, in education,
commercially or however you like, provided you attribute and share alike, as
required by the license.

So you can go to Appropedia:Current
dump<http://www.appropedia.org/Appropedia:Current_dump>and get a copy
of the entire site (for an archive, to distribute in a
different form, or to start a "fork" of the project*) or go to
Special:Export <http://www.appropedia.org/Special:Export> and get as many
pages you want, with or without the history. (You can then use the "Import"
page to add the pages to any other wiki, as long as you have admin
privileges.) Other sites may not have the dump set up, but all MediaWiki
sites should have the export function.

*Note that forks aren't actually encouraged in open source or open knowledge
projects, in most cases, but the freedom to fork is an important one.

Lawrence, do you still have concerns about this?
--
Chris Watkins

Appropedia.org - Sharing knowledge to build rich, sustainable lives.

blogs.appropedia.org
identi.ca/appropedia
twitter.com/appropedia




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