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  • From: Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
  • Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:54:18 -0800 (PST)

--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:

"I personally believe that biochar will prove to revolutionize agriculture in
some regions, but I also think there are places it won't have much effect at
all.  It is an exciting field of study where back yard experimenters can
make real discoveries."

I agree!  Interesting stuff.  I assume you have your own trials going.  Tell
me more about the specifics.  What's your climate like?  Soil type?  Water
regime?  How many seasons have you been at it?
 
I can tell you that one season of using it in my garden with one young apple
tree didn't produce any noticeable results compared to other fruit trees sans
biochar.  It's the only apple I have, so not totally objective, but the
Italian prune plum seems to be similar in pace.  My soil is volcanic loam
about 8" deep before you get to a confining density of glacial moraine. 
Climate-wise, we're semi-arid steppe with hot, dry summers followed by cold,
snowy winters, ~16" of annual precip, mostly frozen.  So not much leaching to
worry about...

 

The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
-Chinese proverb
 

--- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:


From: Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 6:16 PM


As I understand it, biochar improves nutrient holding ability but doesn't
help soil texture and water holding ability like organic matter. On the
scale of a bacteria, a particle of biochar has a labrynthine structure. It
may provide good habitat for the soil food web, but that is a dificult area
to study.

I personally believe that biochar will prove to revolutionize agriculture in
some regions, but I also think there are places it won't have much effect at
all.  It is an exciting field of study where back yard experimenters can
make real discoveries.

On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>wrote:

> So basically, more fines/OM in your soil = more CEC = less need for
> biochar.  Is there a soil texture at which addition of biochar actually
> becomes deleterious?
>
> Tripp
>
>
>
> The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
> -Chinese proverb
>
>
> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 5:49 PM
>
>
> >
> > >Burning creates smoke, a pollutant
>
> Proper biochar kilns produce very little smoke, because they consume nearly
> all of the combustion byproducts, similar to a rocket stove.
>
> > >and materials burned should be cold composted and then returned to the
> > soil using appropriate tillage methods
>
>
> That doesn't work well in the tropics, because soil organisms degrade the
> humus and rain washes it away too quickly.  Biochar lasts longer in soil.
>
> As I understand it, the main *proven* benefit of biochar is that it
> provides
> cation exchange capacity.  Some soils in temperate climates are in dire
> need
> of increased CEC, others have different needs.
>
> >From the pictures I've seen on your blog, Larry, you are working good
> peidmont clay.  That has good cation exchange capacity, but needs organic
> matter to build soil structure.  Biochar probably wouldn't help much there.
> But on the sandy soils of Eastern NC, biochar could enhancce soil fertility
> significantly by holding onto nutrients.
>  _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
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>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
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>
>
>
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>From waehner@gmail.com Thu Jan 7 21:11:13 2010
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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:11:10 -0500
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From: Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com>
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
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Tripp:

I'm in the city of Raleigh, NC, on a tiny fragment of land with 150 year old
trees. I'm on sandy, alluvial loam, in a warm temperate climate. The last
owner was as crazy about soil as I am, and the soil has been receiving horse
and chicken manure for at least a decade. I don't use biochar, although I
plan to make some because I like to play with fire.

As far as your experiences, did you pre- load the charcoal with compost tea
before using it? If you don't, it actually takes nutrients out of
circulation until it becomes "charged". But it sounds like great soil; I
don't know how biochar would improve it.

Here's a good FAQ on biochar in the garden
http://biochar.pbworks.com/FrontPage


On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 7:54 PM, Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com>wrote:

> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> "I personally believe that biochar will prove to revolutionize agriculture
> in
> some regions, but I also think there are places it won't have much effect
> at
> all. It is an exciting field of study where back yard experimenters can
> make real discoveries."
>
> I agree! Interesting stuff. I assume you have your own trials going.
> Tell me more about the specifics. What's your climate like? Soil type?
> Water regime? How many seasons have you been at it?
>
> I can tell you that one season of using it in my garden with one young
> apple tree didn't produce any noticeable results compared to other fruit
> trees sans biochar. It's the only apple I have, so not totally objective,
> but the Italian prune plum seems to be similar in pace. My soil is volcanic
> loam about 8" deep before you get to a confining density of glacial
> moraine. Climate-wise, we're semi-arid steppe with hot, dry summers
> followed by cold, snowy winters, ~16" of annual precip, mostly frozen. So
> not much leaching to worry about...
>
>
>
> The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
> -Chinese proverb
>
>
> --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
> To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 6:16 PM
>
>
> As I understand it, biochar improves nutrient holding ability but doesn't
> help soil texture and water holding ability like organic matter. On the
> scale of a bacteria, a particle of biochar has a labrynthine structure. It
> may provide good habitat for the soil food web, but that is a dificult area
> to study.
>
> I personally believe that biochar will prove to revolutionize agriculture
> in
> some regions, but I also think there are places it won't have much effect
> at
> all. It is an exciting field of study where back yard experimenters can
> make real discoveries.
>
> On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 12:55 PM, Tripp Tibbetts <slowfoodguy@yahoo.com
> >wrote:
>
> > So basically, more fines/OM in your soil = more CEC = less need for
> > biochar. Is there a soil texture at which addition of biochar actually
> > becomes deleterious?
> >
> > Tripp
> >
> >
> >
> > The best fertilizer is the gardener's shadow.
> > -Chinese proverb
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 1/7/10, Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Mathew Waehner <waehner@gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [permaculture] if there were a benefit to deforestation...
> > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Date: Thursday, January 7, 2010, 5:49 PM
> >
> >
> > >
> > > >Burning creates smoke, a pollutant
> >
> > Proper biochar kilns produce very little smoke, because they consume
> nearly
> > all of the combustion byproducts, similar to a rocket stove.
> >
> > > >and materials burned should be cold composted and then returned to the
> > > soil using appropriate tillage methods
> >
> >
> > That doesn't work well in the tropics, because soil organisms degrade the
> > humus and rain washes it away too quickly. Biochar lasts longer in soil.
> >
> > As I understand it, the main *proven* benefit of biochar is that it
> > provides
> > cation exchange capacity. Some soils in temperate climates are in dire
> > need
> > of increased CEC, others have different needs.
> >
> > >From the pictures I've seen on your blog, Larry, you are working good
> > peidmont clay. That has good cation exchange capacity, but needs organic
> > matter to build soil structure. Biochar probably wouldn't help much
> there.
> > But on the sandy soils of Eastern NC, biochar could enhancce soil
> fertility
> > significantly by holding onto nutrients.
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > Google command to search archives:
> > site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> > Google command to search archives:
> > site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
> >
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
> Google command to search archives:
> site:https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/permaculture searchstring
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subscribe or unsubscribe here:
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
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>
>
>




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