permaculture

[Daniel Mazen Kablaoui <dankablaoui@gmail.com>]

Nazis and communists?! Neither "communists", if I understand who you
mean, or Nazis, were interested polling or mob rule. Nazis and
communists? For real? Dropping the big N on an internet vote now?
Maybe that's a little far?

Besides, that seems to be exactly the way a democracy is function.
Don't we, as members of a group which favors a lifestyle shift from
our current culture, know that as well as anybody? Minority groups,
including permies, have been complaining about that tendency since
democracy was born.

But as long as we're making comparisons to fascists it's worth
pointing out that they took a pretty dim view on "new" ideas, on
"reform," and certainly on discussion.  Every time Evan posts
something Kathleen, you seem ready to rub his face in the dirt and
ridicule him for it.  I have been absolutely beside myself with what
to think about your comments.  None of them have been constructive,
you have been ruthlessly negative, and you have tried again and again
to poison any kind of dialectic here with personal attacks and
allusions to evil.  I don't understand what kind of useful point you
could be trying to make, all that seems clear is that you think all
"pirates and thieves" ought to be strung up and forgotten about.  I'm
guessing there is a reason you are entitled to use that tone and those
words on this otherwise courteous listserv, but I can't imagine it's
license to throw all rationality out the door.  Not when just about
everybody else is attempting to have a reasonable discussion.  Am I
wrong?

I often am..

Peace - and thanks to Evan, Christophe, Toby, Dieter, Chris everybody
else who made this debate interesting and tried to keep it healthy.

(Nazis???)

D




On Nov 18, 2009, at 7:20 PM, <ktho@comcast.net> wrote:

> That would be dandy if democracy had ever been seen to extend to
> being able
> to vote on whether or not you are going to rob someone of their
> livelihood
> and intellectual property. "Hey - I wanna pirate Mollison's work!
> Let's vote
> on it and then we can *prove* we're right, since everyone agrees!"
> That's
> what the Nazi and the Communists said and we all see how well that
> worked
> out.
>
> That's not democracy - that's mobocracy. And piracy.
>
> Kathleen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Evan
> Schoepke
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:44 PM
> To: permaculture; Tagari Publications
> Subject: [permaculture] Thanks everyone for the healthy debate
>
>  Answer Votes Yes, certainly it will benefit Tagari, Bill Mollison,
> permaculture, and the earth!
> 2839%
> Perhaps there can be a compromise (sliding scale donation) for the
> digital
> copy
> 1115%
> Other (see
> below<http://punkrockpermaculture.wordpress.com/wp-admin/admin.php?page=poll
> s&action=results&poll=2241959#other-answers-results>
> )
> 1014%
> No, silly permie punk anarchist should just write their own silly free
> books...
> 68%
> Whatever, I just got a free copy off some bit torrent and now I'm
> planting
> trees
> 68%
> Yes, but perhaphs it will be bad for Tagari but good for the earth and
> permaculture
> 57%
> Only if Bill says so
> 57%
> No, there is no ecological crisis lets just continue business as
> usual....
> 11%
>  Other Answer Votes I believe the internet should be free and
> holding on
> too tightly isn't healthy! 1 It's unethical to steal peoples work. 1
> There's
> a difference between "free as in speech", and "free as in lunch" 1
> if it's
> not yours to give away, yuo have no business giving it away. 1 do
> not take
> what does not belong to you without specific permission 1 It is a
> travisty
> and a quantum sin to commercialise learning about permaculture 1 I
> shared a
> story with Bill and got a PDM free in return 1 Yes, Free Access to
> Knowledge! 1 Whatever works for you as a superempowered individual! 1
> Permaculture
> is for everyone regardless of money; not some middle class hobby 1
> -- For all who is curious, these are the results of a poll regarding
> the
> distribution of a free or sliding scale digital version of the
> Permaculture
> Designers Manual.
>
> ~evan (@gaiapunk)
>
> The obstacle is the Path.
> -Zen Proverb
>
> I write at www.punkrockpermaculture.com
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