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Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas"
- From: Albert Johnston <johnston.albertg@gmail.com>
- To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
- Subject: Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas"
- Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:46:01 -0400
I have read the book "Alcohol Can Be A Gas".
I highly recommend this book for permaculturists. The point he makes over and over in the book is that feedstock should be waste from other processes or selected permaculture crops such as Jerusalem Artichoke. The protein and fat coproduced used as feed for livestock, earthworms etc. Also the possibilities of using cattails in a waste treatment facility that produce large amounts of starch.
I especially like the part about using the laws that protect petroleum distrubutors to establish local ethanol producers as part of a local permaculture cooperative.
Lately I have been pondering a new definition for permaculture. One way to define permaculture is ethical capitalism. Perhaps someone can start a string on this thought.
I am not a certified permaculturists so be kind on the feedback.
Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 21, 2009, at 2:32 AM, "Thomas Paul Jahn" <tpj@life.ku.dk> wrote:
Sorry, but in my eyes this is not permaculture at all. As long as he wants us make believe that we will be driving our cars and lorries on alcohol in substitution for oil this is insane.
With large production of alcohol from crops we directly compete with food. Using "waste organic material" (second generation biofuel) for alcohol production is not an alternative either. After reading Fukuoka it was clear to me that straw HAS TO BE used for mulch and cannot be taken out of this direct cycling.
It should always be possible to generate some minor amount of biofuel, so the methode in principle may be interesting. But not for large production. Transportation will only go as human powered or electric human powered hybrid.
cheers
Thomas
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop@cox.net> wrote:katey culver <newtribe@hughes.net> 21-10-09 2:23 >>>
At the Financial Permaculture summit in 2008, one of the groups worked
on a concept for a farmer-owned cooperative that would make fuel from
local production for use in local production...
Additionally, prior to the event the hosts of the Financial Permaculture
summit had brought David Blume to talk to the Chamber of Commerce of Lewis
County (county where Financial Permaculture event was held) and based the
Ethanol Production track of the workshop on the ideas promoted in David's
book. The people who came to lead that track are the principles in the
company Pesco-Beam. You can see work on ethanol production at
http://www.pescova.com/biofuel_production/ethanol_production.shtml
They have been in the ethanol production business since 1980 and have a
permaculture perspective. They were loaded with good energy and great
information. I think they are very approachable so i would recommend a
phone call to them to talk if you are interested in the pursuing this
avenue.
Katey
--
Katey Culver
www.earthandstraw.com
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:29 PM, Robert Waldrop <bwaldrop@cox.net> wrote:
At the Financial Permaculture summit in 2008, one of the groups worked_______________________________________________
on a concept for a farmer-owned cooperative that would make fuel from
local production for use in local production with some surplus available
to be sold to the community, another useful product being the "brewers
grains" which would go to dairies in the area, all of whom would be in
the cooperative too. I think at that level, alcohol production from
biomass makes economic, energetic and permacultural "sense". Giant
factories using corn to make ethanol for use across a continent is
clearly not a net-energy activity. Corn is probably one of the worst
things to make into alcohol.
Bob Waldrop, OKC
http://www.barkingfrogspermaculture.org
Leo Brodie wrote:
Do any of you have any thoughts or experience with David Blume and hisadvocacy of alcohol (aka ethanol) as fuel? He touts himself as a
permaculturist (he owns the domain permaculture.com), and does speak in
terms that make some ecological sense (local production, re- applying the
mash back to the soil), but I'm not sure it all adds up.
academic research (e.g
He makes it sound like alcohol burns completely clean, but I've found
http://petroleum.berkeley.edu/patzek/BiofuelQA/Materials/ClimateHealth.pdf )
that says otherwise.
Permaculture circles, but if his claims have any merit we should be trying
I'm asking because I have never heard any mention of his work in
this stuff.
_______________________________________________
Thanks in advance,
Leo Brodie, Seattle
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-
[permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
Thomas Paul Jahn, 10/21/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
Albert Johnston, 10/21/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
trevor william johnson, 10/22/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
Gavin Raders, 10/22/2009
- Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas", christopher nesbitt, 10/22/2009
-
Message not available
- Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas", Lawrence F. London, Jr., 10/27/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
Gavin Raders, 10/22/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
trevor william johnson, 10/22/2009
-
Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas",
Albert Johnston, 10/21/2009
- Re: [permaculture] Svar: Re: David Blume and "Alcohol Can Be A Gas", Toby Hemenway, 10/21/2009
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