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permaculture - Re: [permaculture] Similarities between the Jesus Movement at itsorigin and the Permaculture movement

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  • From: "Robert Waldrop" <bwaldrop@cox.net>
  • To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Similarities between the Jesus Movement at itsorigin and the Permaculture movement
  • Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:34:02 -0600

I'd also like to point out that the Catholic Church is a very big tent, it is the largest world human cultural institution. It has been around for a long time and will not be going away soon. The church has gone through an examination of its corporate conscience and a repentance process about its many sins, which is more than we can say about most other human cultural institutions. Since I work for a Catholic church as a parish musician, I am as aware as anybody of the faults of the Catholic Church, yet the actual reality is much more complex.

Benedict XVI is continuing a process set in motion by JP II to call Catholics to a greater awareness of our responsibility to care for creation. During his sermon at midnight mass in the Vatican this year, he compared the stable and the manger where Christ was born to the world, polluted by the abuse of energy. . .

"Gregory of Nyssa, in his Christmas homilies, developed the same vision setting out from the Christmas message in the Gospel of John: "He pitched his tent among us" (Jn 1:14). . . What would he say if he could see the state of the world today, through the abuse of energy and its selfish and reckless exploitation? Anselm of Canterbury, in an almost prophetic way, once described a vision of what we witness today in a polluted world whose future is at risk: "Everything was as if dead, and had lost its dignity, having been made for the service of those who praise God. The elements of the world were oppressed, they had lost their splendour because of the abuse of those who enslaved them for their idols, for whom they had not been created" (PL 158, 955f.). Thus, according to Gregory's vision, the stable in the Christmas message represents the ill-treated world. What Christ rebuilds is no ordinary palace. He came to restore beauty and dignity to creation, to the universe: this is what began at Christmas and makes the angels rejoice."

My faith journey in Roman Catholicism is what led me to permaculture and keeps me going. So as much as we want to make things black and white, either-or, reality continues to surprise us with its complexity.

Bob Waldrop
Oscar Romero Catholic Worker House
Oklahoma City
www.justpeace.org
www.catholicworker.org
www.energyconservationinfo.org
www.bettertimesinfo.org

----- Original Message ----- From: "Gregory Konger" <gjkonger@yahoo.com>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2007 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Similarities between the Jesus Movement at itsorigin and the Permaculture movement


It is true that the early Catholic Church became more like the empire that oppressed it. However, Pope John Paul, the one who just died not too long ago, did apologize about the crusades, the inquisition, and other in-the-name-of-Christianity violence. We have to remember that the true christian disciplines of abstinence that the Catholic Church and other churches teach are very beneficial to the environment and each other. By abstaining from sex, food, and other questionable pleasures or work, we reduce the amount of destruction done to the environment and to each other. The Catholic church or any other church is not perfect and is not in the know as much as the permaculture movement, but the church does reform. It has reformed since the times of Luther, and it will continue to be reformed.


Greg Konger






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