permaculture

[Harry Wykman <harrybw@iinet.net.au>]

Some questions have been being asked on the permaculture oceana list 
recently regarding open source (permaculture / garden) design software.  
It would be very exciting if something along those lines were 
progressed.  The synergy between P/c and open source / free software 
seems very productive.  On ownership, something along the lines of the 
Creative Commons of Copyleft might be pursued.  People could license 
their designs from a suite of licenses that allowed sharing under 
certain conditions.  These kind of agreements have their ancestry in the 
GNU public license which was developed for free never-for-profit software.

Harry Wykman


Niels Corfield wrote:
> Rich-
>
> This has been one of my pet issues.
> I started my research by trying to locate completed designs but with no 
> joy at all.
> Really the ideal situation as I see it is that /all/ permaculture 
> designs are published online.
> I think the best/simplest mechanism for this from now on would be to 
> have all designs from diplomas and PDC being submitted online.
> On a central database.
> There maybe some issues with ownership but i think if its done through a 
> course people then there is less comeback on this one.
>
> This is one of the goals for the next phase of the Permaculture Assoc 
> Britain (PAB) website.
> Which we hope to have at least integrated into the consultation phase 
> this year.
>
> However I am having difficulty finding a online codebase/technology that 
> can handle the new media rich/user driven web presence for the PAB.
> There will need to be substantial integration of tagging, image 
> management etc which to me, a non-coder, seems only available in a 
> proprietary form.
> For example: Flickr for images, delicious for bookmarking.
> At least there is Scuttle.org to replace delicious but I don't know how 
> easy it will be to integrate its functions for database retrieval, 
> rather than just URLs.
> Anyone got any good ideas on  this front? Would be nice to hear.
> We are looking to fund-raise for this, so if a coder is to hired then 
> that is a possibility.
> Right now though we need to see what our options are, particularly with 
> regards to technologies.
>
> Cheers,
> Niels
>
> Rich Blaha wrote:
>
>   
> > Niels-  "Real Email not required for download"
> >
> > Thanks, again, for input.  It's always nice to know there's a privacy 
> > out on these things, without having to make up an email address.  I 
> > start losing track of my fake ones pretty quickly.
> >
> > _______________
> >
> > Bob-  "Why is it that so few site plans are available?"
> >
> > Good question.   In the past, I think distribution played a 
> > part...permies weren't the first demographic to leap headfirst onto the 
> > internet, so we're a little behind there.  Judging from the great 
> > technical responses I've got so far to this posting, the permaculture 
> > community is going digital rapidly, so if that's a barrier, then it 
> > should be falling as we speak.
> >
> > There's also the lazy effect.  Not that we're a lazy bunch, at all, but 
> > sitting in front of the computer / drafting table, scanning, uploading, 
> > photocopying, whatever it takes to distribute a plan falls pretty low on 
> > the list when the sun is shining, fruit is ripening, swales need 
> > digging, etc etc.  Being people of action reduces our time spent 
> > spreading the word.  Not that I would have it any other way.
> >
> > And then there's the intellectual property issue.  Plans that you can 
> > find on the web are often very low resolution, to the point that the 
> > Monet-esque blur of detail is better as art than a map.  I can only 
> > assume that it is at least somewhat intentional, with some designers 
> > keeping their cards close to the vest, so to speak.  To a point, I guess 
> > it makes sense, since making a 'living' at permaculture is a dicey 
> > prospect at best, made perhaps more dicey by spreading the fruit of your 
> > labors to the competition. 
> >
> > However, I don't feel that that's the way the consulting market works.  
> > Landscape consultations of any kind inevitably spiral down to a personal 
> > relationship....cost, etc  plays a role, but if you've got the vision, 
> > and can articulate it to the client, and get them excited about it, 
> > they're generally not going to keep shopping around if they're jazzed up 
> > on your idea and your costs are similar to the competition.  Jump in and 
> > correct me if you've learned different, you full time professional 
> > designers out there.
> >
> > I tend to think of a plan like this as another facet of our farm's 
> > production system.  Besides our cash crops, gardens, and orchards, the 
> > outputs from our learning here are a yield.  And because digital 
> > transfer is so cheap, we can easily call it a surplus, which should then 
> > be shared. 
> >
> > 2 cents
> >
> > Rich
> > Mossback Farm
> > Yamhill, OR
> > www.mossbackfarm.com/journal
> >
> >
> >  
> >
> >     
> > >  4. Real Email not required for download Re: Farm design online
> > >     (Niels Corfield)
> > >
> > >  9. Re: Farm design online (Robert Waldrop)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Message: 4
> > > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:00:41 +0100
> > > From: Niels Corfield <mudguard@gmail.com>
> > > Subject: [permaculture] Real Email not required for download Re: Farm
> > >         design online
> > > To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > Message-ID: <44969FF9.4080800@gmail.com>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> > >
> > > Just a quickie, anyone wishing to retain anonymity when using the free 
> > > download of arcreader, there is no need to give real info, or email.
> > > No confirmation or authorisation codes are provided by email or however.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > N*
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------
> > >
> > > Message: 9
> > > Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:53:17 -0500
> > > From: "Robert Waldrop" <bwaldrop@cox.net>
> > > Subject: Re: [permaculture] Farm design online
> > > To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>,
> > >         <permaculture@openpermaculture.org>
> > > Message-ID: <011a01c693b8$7b8b9a90$5c960c44@bobcomputer>
> > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> > >         reply-type=original
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > From: "Rich Blaha" <rich@mossbackfarm.com>
> > >
> > >
> > >    
> > >
> > >       
> > > > When I first became interested in permaculture 
> > > > ~15 years ago, site plans
> > > > were hard to come by, and as the internet grew, 
> > > > I was hoping that we'd
> > > > see more and more plans online.  Well, they're 
> > > > still pretty hard to come
> > > > by, but here's my contribution to the Open 
> > > > Source permaculture movement.
> > > >   
> > > >
> > > >      
> > > >
> > > >         
> > > Thanks very much for this.  Why is it that so few 
> > > site plans are available?  I have thought a bit 
> > > about this, but haven't come up with anything.  I 
> > > had never seen an actual design report until I 
> > > enrolled in the online PDC taught by Barking Frogs 
> > > Permaculture, which includes a sample design as 
> > > part of the reading package, and then of course I 
> > > have had access to the designs being developed by 
> > > the other students, but that's it.  I intend to 
> > > make mine available once it has been completed and 
> > > passed which hopefully will be later this year.  I 
> > > don't know how people do something like this in a 
> > > two week course, our online PDC started in 
> > > September 2005 and finished in April 2006, and I 
> > > was not able to master the material and develop 
> > > the design report in that time frame, so I am 
> > > taking it again in the coming year to learn more 
> > > and to finish the report and become certified (you 
> > > can repeat it the following year as a monitor 
> > > without additional payment).
> > >
> > > The "Open Source Permaculture" phrase is great, 
> > > btw.  Maybe it will sprout a new rhizome in the 
> > > public domain.
> > >
> > > Bob Waldrop, OKC 
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    
> > >
> > >       
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> >
> >  
> >
> >     
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