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  • From: Niels Corfield <mudguard@gmail.com>
  • To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: [permaculture] Suggestion for Design Sources/Soluition Re: Farm design online
  • Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:36:49 +0100

Rich-

This has been one of my pet issues.
I started my research by trying to locate completed designs but with no joy at all.
Really the ideal situation as I see it is that /all/ permaculture designs are published online.
I think the best/simplest mechanism for this from now on would be to have all designs from diplomas and PDC being submitted online.
On a central database.
There maybe some issues with ownership but i think if its done through a course people then there is less comeback on this one.

This is one of the goals for the next phase of the Permaculture Assoc Britain (PAB) website.
Which we hope to have at least integrated into the consultation phase this year.

However I am having difficulty finding a online codebase/technology that can handle the new media rich/user driven web presence for the PAB.
There will need to be substantial integration of tagging, image management etc which to me, a non-coder, seems only available in a proprietary form.
For example: Flickr for images, delicious for bookmarking.
At least there is Scuttle.org to replace delicious but I don't know how easy it will be to integrate its functions for database retrieval, rather than just URLs.
Anyone got any good ideas on this front? Would be nice to hear.
We are looking to fund-raise for this, so if a coder is to hired then that is a possibility.
Right now though we need to see what our options are, particularly with regards to technologies.

Cheers,
Niels

Rich Blaha wrote:

Niels- "Real Email not required for download"

Thanks, again, for input. It's always nice to know there's a privacy out on these things, without having to make up an email address. I start losing track of my fake ones pretty quickly.

_______________

Bob- "Why is it that so few site plans are available?"

Good question. In the past, I think distribution played a part...permies weren't the first demographic to leap headfirst onto the internet, so we're a little behind there. Judging from the great technical responses I've got so far to this posting, the permaculture community is going digital rapidly, so if that's a barrier, then it should be falling as we speak.

There's also the lazy effect. Not that we're a lazy bunch, at all, but sitting in front of the computer / drafting table, scanning, uploading, photocopying, whatever it takes to distribute a plan falls pretty low on the list when the sun is shining, fruit is ripening, swales need digging, etc etc. Being people of action reduces our time spent spreading the word. Not that I would have it any other way.

And then there's the intellectual property issue. Plans that you can find on the web are often very low resolution, to the point that the Monet-esque blur of detail is better as art than a map. I can only assume that it is at least somewhat intentional, with some designers keeping their cards close to the vest, so to speak. To a point, I guess it makes sense, since making a 'living' at permaculture is a dicey prospect at best, made perhaps more dicey by spreading the fruit of your labors to the competition.
However, I don't feel that that's the way the consulting market works. Landscape consultations of any kind inevitably spiral down to a personal relationship....cost, etc plays a role, but if you've got the vision, and can articulate it to the client, and get them excited about it, they're generally not going to keep shopping around if they're jazzed up on your idea and your costs are similar to the competition. Jump in and correct me if you've learned different, you full time professional designers out there.

I tend to think of a plan like this as another facet of our farm's production system. Besides our cash crops, gardens, and orchards, the outputs from our learning here are a yield. And because digital transfer is so cheap, we can easily call it a surplus, which should then be shared.
2 cents

Rich
Mossback Farm
Yamhill, OR
www.mossbackfarm.com/journal



4. Real Email not required for download Re: Farm design online
(Niels Corfield)

9. Re: Farm design online (Robert Waldrop)





Message: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 14:00:41 +0100
From: Niels Corfield <mudguard@gmail.com>
Subject: [permaculture] Real Email not required for download Re: Farm
design online
To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <44969FF9.4080800@gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Just a quickie, anyone wishing to retain anonymity when using the free download of arcreader, there is no need to give real info, or email.
No confirmation or authorisation codes are provided by email or however.

Cheers,
N*


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:53:17 -0500
From: "Robert Waldrop" <bwaldrop@cox.net>
Subject: Re: [permaculture] Farm design online
To: "permaculture" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>,
<permaculture@openpermaculture.org>
Message-ID: <011a01c693b8$7b8b9a90$5c960c44@bobcomputer>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original

----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Blaha" <rich@mossbackfarm.com>



When I first became interested in permaculture ~15 years ago, site plans
were hard to come by, and as the internet grew, I was hoping that we'd
see more and more plans online. Well, they're still pretty hard to come
by, but here's my contribution to the Open Source permaculture movement.


Thanks very much for this. Why is it that so few site plans are available? I have thought a bit about this, but haven't come up with anything. I had never seen an actual design report until I enrolled in the online PDC taught by Barking Frogs Permaculture, which includes a sample design as part of the reading package, and then of course I have had access to the designs being developed by the other students, but that's it. I intend to make mine available once it has been completed and passed which hopefully will be later this year. I don't know how people do something like this in a two week course, our online PDC started in September 2005 and finished in April 2006, and I was not able to master the material and develop the design report in that time frame, so I am taking it again in the coming year to learn more and to finish the report and become certified (you can repeat it the following year as a monitor without additional payment).

The "Open Source Permaculture" phrase is great, btw. Maybe it will sprout a new rhizome in the public domain.

Bob Waldrop, OKC






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