permaculture

[lblissett <blissett@optonline.net>]

Interesting messages, sorry if this thread is a little old. A few brief
thoughts:

1. As someone who recently took a PDC, I can say that I would have been very
turned off if I'd have to pay to sit through a much of metaphysical theory.
Not because I don't think it can be valuable, but because permaculture
courses tend to be so short, that I think the more time devoted to hands-on
application (whether on the design table or in the field) the better.

2. I believe that the spiritual and philosophical aspects of permaculture
will naturally follow so long as you are practicing permaculture actively
and thoughtfully. That is, if you practice it regularly in what you do, I
think you can't help but look at other things (such as human relationships
or cultural institutions) through the same lens. That's my hunch, anyhow.

3. If a permaculture revolution is possible, it will not come from
spirituality and theory, but from finding ways of demonstrating and
replicating its strengths from the ground up, for all to see.

- David Travis



----- Original Message -----
From: "Rain Tenaqiya" <raincascadia@yahoo.com>
To: <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 2:10 PM
Subject: [permaculture] the dualistic split in permaculture teaching


> Michael Kramer is on to something very important.  It seems that the
permaculture movement is suffering from the old matter/spirit split and it
is hindering the movement from applying permaculture design to social
systems.  There seems to be an assumption that humuns are somehow separate
from the rest of Nature.  Therefore, it is possible to apply systems
theory/ecological principles to physical, land-based or even energy-based
designs, but not to the relationships between people or their social
systems.  But humun systems are part of Nature and obey the same laws.
>
> I once saw a surprisingly useful presentation by Darren Huckle of Santa
Cruz on permaculture principles as applied to spirituality.  If you can
apply permaculture to spirituality, you can definitely apply it to economic
systems, group dynamics, political systems, and all the rest.  Permaculture
teachers say permaculture is about design and not techniques, but students
are not getting it.  Maybe if we had a course without reference to trees,
water, and earth (I profess to wince at the thought), people would finally
get it.  The essence of permaculture is about relationships, not objects.
Many urban people have trouble apply permaculture to their lives because
they don't have much access to trees, water, or soil.  What we need is a
permaculture revolution.
>
> Let's do it!
>
> Rain
>
>
>
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