permaculture

[Claude William Genest <genest@pivot.net>]

Yes I do.

Claude

On Thursday, February 17, 2005, at 05:52 PM, Cochran, Jason wrote:

> Does anyone have any knowledge on how to build a grey water filter 
> system
> using the most basic and appropiate technology possible?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:permaculture-request@lists.ibiblio.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 12:02 PM
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: permaculture Digest, Vol 25, Issue 10
>
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: trees for ponds.... (Rich Blaha)
>    2. Re: Re: trees & ponds (Keith Johnson)
>    3. (Fwd) ETC Group: News: Canadian Gov. Pushes       Terminator at UN
>       M (Cricket Rakita)
>    4. Re: Re: trees & ponds (Paul Wheaton)
>    5. Re: Re: trees for ponds.... (Paul Wheaton)
>    6. Re: Re: trees for ponds.... (Dylan Ford)
>    7. Re: Re: trees for ponds.... (Paul Wheaton)
>    8. Re: Re: trees for ponds.... (Keith Johnson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 10:45:51 -0800
> From: "Rich Blaha" <rich@mossbackfarm.com>
> Subject: [permaculture] Re: trees for ponds....
> To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> Message-ID: <20050207184551.6160.qmail@server263.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> [sorry about the aborted previous post....enter is a dangerous key.  
> post
> continues below]
>
> -setting up a curtain wall for the water to fall into the pond can be 
> great
> if it's very sturdy...again, my current pond was dug out by a previous
> owner...this created a headcut which ran >800ft upstream, silting the 
> pond
> and lowering the groundwater table.  See prev post re: cursing of 
> names.
>
> I think that's all .... sounds fun, Paul!
>
> Rich
> Mossback Farm
> www.mossbackfarm.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2005 14:05:11 -0500
> From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: trees & ponds
> To: Rich Blaha <rich@mossbackfarm.com>,   permaculture
>         <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <4207BBE7.2080300@mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
> Rich,
> Apparently when you get your mail from the list you get them not one at
> a time, but rather as a large group of emails. When you simply reply
> without deleting all of that we all end up getting an email that is
> quite long, in this case 27 K, not a large email but multiplied to
> everyone adds up to a fair bit of bandwidth. Pehaps some judicious
> pruning would help relieve us all of redundant and excessive mail
> downloading. Especially those with 24 Kbps modems need to be accounted
> for. On top of that, I didn't even find your response in the document.
> thanks,
> Keith
>
> Rich Blaha wrote:
>
> > Some thoughts on Paul's plan and the responses....
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 14:27:47 -0500
> From: "Cricket Rakita" <cricket@savingourseed.org>
> Subject: [permaculture] (Fwd) ETC Group: News: Canadian Gov. Pushes
>         Terminator at UN M
> To: "'permaculture'" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <E1CyEY2-0000e4-00@pop-a065d05.pas.sa.earthlink.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"
>
> ETC Group News Release
> 7 February 2005
> www.etcgroup.org
>
> Canadian Government to Unleash Terminator  Bombshell at UN Meeting:
> All-out push for commercialization of Sterile Seed Technology
>
> A confidential document leaked today to ETC Group reveals that the 
> Canadian
> government,  at a United Nations meeting in Bangkok (Feb 7-11), will 
> attempt
> to overturn an international moratorium on genetic seed sterilization
> technology (known universally as Terminator).  Even worse, the Canadian
> government has instructed its negotiators to "block consensus" on any 
> other
> option.
>
> "Canada is about to launch a devastating kick in the stomach to the 
> world's
> most vulnerable farmers - the 1.4 billion people who depend on farm 
> saved
> seed," said ETC Group Executive Director Pat Mooney speaking from 
> Ottawa.
> "The Canadian government is doing the dirty work for the multinational 
> gene
> giants and the US government. Even Monsanto wasn't prepared to be this
> upfront and nasty. Canada is betraying Farmers'
> Rights and food sovereignty everywhere."
>
> Terminator technology was first developed by the US government and the 
> seed
> industry to prevent farmers from re-planting saved seed and is 
> considered
> the most controversial and immoral agricultural application of genetic
> engineering so far.  When first made public in 1998, "suicide seeds"
> triggered an avalanche of public opposition, forcing Monsanto to 
> abandon the
> technology and prompting the UN Convention on Biological Diversity 
> (CBD) to
> impose a de facto moratorium on its further development.  According to 
> the
> leaked instructions to Canadian negotiators at SBSTTA 10 (a scientific
> advisory body to the CBD), Canada will  insist on Wednesday (9 Feb.) 
> that
> governments accept the field testing and commercialization of 
> Terminator
> varieties (referred to as GURTS -- Genetic Use Restriction 
> Technologies).
> Canada will also attack an official UN report, prepared by an 
> international
> expert group, which is critical of the potential impacts of Terminator 
> seeds
> on small farmers and Indigenous Peoples. In stark contrast to Canada's
> position, the expert report recommends that governments seek 
> prohibitions on
> the technology.
>
> In Bangkok, civil society and Indigenous Peoples are calling on the 
> Canadian
> government to abandon its endorsement of Terminator and to join with 
> other
> governments to prohibit the technology once and for all.  Many African 
> and
> Asian governments have called for Terminator to be banned and the 
> European
> Union has also been supportive of the existing moratorium.
>
> "It is outrageous that Canada is backing an anti-farmer technology and
> shameful that it will 'block consensus' on any other outcome.
> Governments from around the world must not accept this bullying 
> tactic,"
> says ETC Group's Hope Shand from the negotiations in Bangkok.
> "If Canada blocks decision-making on this issue, the moratorium will 
> be in
> jeopardy and terminator seeds will be commercialized ending up in the 
> fields
> of small farmers."
>
> The full leaked text of the Canadian government's instructions to its
> negotiators on Terminator/GURTS follows.
>
> Hope Shand and Jim Thomas of ETC Group can be contacted  at SBSTTA
> negotiations in Bangkok on cell phone +44 (0) 7752 106806 or by email
> jim@etcgroup.org or  hope@etcgroup.org
>
> Pat Mooney (in Ottawa)  +1 (613) 241-2267 etc@etcgroup.org
>
> Kathy Jo Wetter (USA) +1 (919) 960-5223  kjo@etcgroup.org
>
> The Head of the Canadian Delegation in Bangkok is Robert McLean,
> Environment  Canada - Robert.Mclean@ec.gc.ca   tel +1 (819) 997-1303
>
>
>
> "Advice on the report of the Ad Hoc Technical Expert Group on Genetic 
> Use
> Restriction Technologies (GURTS);
>
> Canada has major reservations regarding the recommendations in the 
> AHTEG
> report.  Canada notes that the experts were unable to reach consensus 
> and
> that while this is recognized in para. 15 of the report, this should 
> have
> been made clear in the recommendation section of the report. 
> Unfortunately,
> the report leaves the impression that consensus was achieved on all of 
> the
> recommendations when this was clearly not case and in particular in 
> terms of
> recommendation (b) which reads as follows, "In view of the current 
> lack of
> data, recommends that Parties and other Governments consider the 
> development
> of regulatory frameworks not to approve GURTs for field-testing and
> commercial use."
>
> Canada will suggest that the document clearly indicate in the Annex 
> that
> there is no consensus on for the recommendations. Alternatively, the 
> AHTEG
> report can be referred to as the "Chairs' report". Canada also 
> believes that
> the AHTEG report contains scientific inaccuracies and a lack of 
> balance in
> terms of reflecting both potential positive and negative impacts of 
> this
> technology, and these issues should be addressed before the report is
> further distributed. We believe that it would be beneficial for 
> Parties and
> other governments to submit comments to the Executive Secretary/CHM to
> represent national views to improve the accuracy of the document, and 
> that
> these be made available to both the 8j working group and COP.
>
> Additionally, Canada will propose that SBSTTA adopt a recommendation 
> for
> decision at COP8 based on the revised wording of recommendation "b"
>   below and will propose this recommendation be incorporated for
> consideration at the 8j meeting:
>
> NEW WORDING  for recommendation b) of AHTEG report
>
> (b) In view of the current lack of data, recommend that Parties and 
> other
> Governments consider the development of domestic regulatory frameworks 
> TO
> ALLOW FOR THE EVALUATION OF NOVEL VARIETIES, INCLUDING THOSE WITH 
> GURTS, FOR
> FIELD TESTING AND COMMERCIAL USE BASED ON APPROPRIATE SCIENCE-BASED
> ENVIRONMENTAL RISK/SAFETY ASSESSMENTS.
>
> In Canada's opinion the revised wording we are suggesting, strengthens 
> the
> recommendation and provides for a strong scientific assessment of risk.
>
> If we are unsuccessful in obtaining these additions (indication that
> recommendations in the AHTEG report were not based on consensus OR 
> agreement
> to have national views submitted) AND changes to recommendation "B" 
> --or any
> other outcome which clearly addresses our concern over a defacto 
> moratorium
> on GURTS-- Canada is prepared to block consensus on this issue."
>
> _______________________________________________
> ETC Group mailing list
> http://lists.etcgroup.org/mailman/listinfo/etcgroup
>
> ------- End of forwarded message -------
>
> Cricket Rakita
> The Save Our Seed Project Coordinator
> Carolina Farm Stewardship Association
> 49 Circle D Dr.
> Colbert, GA  30628
> home/work:  (706) 788-0017
> fax:  (706) 788-0071
> cell:  (706) 614-1451
> web:  http://www.savingourseed.org
> email:  cricket@savingourseed.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:48:13 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: trees & ponds
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <20050207194813.87462.qmail@web13821.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > -If you want the pond to outlive you, definitely keep the trees off 
> > of it.
>
>
> By "it", do you mean the dam?  Or do you mean the whole pond?
>
> > -I'm only passingly familiar with your area, but I bet your summers 
> > are
> pretty
> > hot...
>
> They can get hot.  50 miles west of here is quite desert-ish.  But we 
> are on
> a mountain,
> in a wee valley.  So it's a little cooler and wetter than Spokane.
>
> > .unless you have a very deep pond, and/or good flow-through in the dry
> months,
>
> We're shooting for depths of at least 12 feet.  And we're not going to 
> put
> fish in any
> pond that doesn't get at least 1gpm of flow throughout the summer and 
> that
> flow is
> dribbled into the pond from a height of at least six feet.
>
> > water temperature, not pond productivity, is going to be your limiting
> factor for
> > trout.  Shade, whether from docks, trees, or floating gardens, will
> probably be
> > important
>
> That's what I'm thinking too.
>
> By "floating garden" I keep imagining something like peat bogs:  a 
> layer of
> organic
> matter floating on the water with a variety of plant life.  Is this 
> what you
> are
> thinking?
>
> > - [woodsjay said] Also run the incoming water (if there is an 
> > appropriate
> > >  grade) into the pond with a wide mouthed flume so that the
> > >  water falls as a curtain from a height. This will both cool
> > >  and oxygenate the water both of which the trout need.
>
> This is the plan.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 11:50:28 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: trees for ponds....
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <20050207195028.70780.qmail@web13804.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > -setting up a curtain wall for the water to fall into the pond can be
> great if it's
> > very sturdy...again, my current pond was dug out by a previous
> owner...this created a
> > headcut which ran >800ft upstream, silting the pond and lowering the
> groundwater table.
> >  See prev post re: cursing of names.
>
> Not sure I follow this.
>
> Somebody dug a pond that impacted something upsteam?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 20:22:55 -0500
> From: "Dylan Ford" <dford@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: trees for ponds....
> To: <paul@richsoil.com>,  "permaculture"
>         <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <004301c50d7e$db738ab0$996e8bd1@dylanwmvi3setm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Paul - In reference to the use of willows around ponds, I've been told 
> that
> a problem with them is the amount of seasonal shedding of twigs.dylan
>
>
>
>
>
> Dylan Ford is the author of the proposal at www.ideaforpresident.com , 
> a
> website devoted to an idea that could provide an avenue to address 
> pollution
> issues, food safety, social justice, prison reform and healthcare.
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
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>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2005 17:59:10 -0800 (PST)
> From: Paul Wheaton <paul@richsoil.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: trees for ponds....
> To: permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <20050208015910.41664.qmail@web13810.mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > Paul - In reference to the use of willows around ponds, I've been told
> that
> > a problem with them is the amount of seasonal shedding of twigs.dylan
>
> ???  So they dump loads of twigs?  I suppose they float ...  I take it 
> that
> people see
> that as a problem because it plugs the outlet?
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2005 01:13:20 -0500
> From: Keith Johnson <keithdj@mindspring.com>
> Subject: Re: [permaculture] Re: trees for ponds....
> To: paul@richsoil.com, permaculture <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <42085880.1030909@mindspring.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> If it dumps dead twigs, no problem. If it drops green twigs, then each
> one that falls into the pond can root and make a new tree. I once used
>  a few yards of freshly chipped willow branches in a client's landscape
> in dry California and we ended up removing baby willows by the hundreds
> a few months later. Squirrels often prune twigs out of trees as do some
> birds. Most species its not an issue. Willows.....watch out. And I love
> willows.
> K
>
> Paul Wheaton wrote:
>
> > > Paul - In reference to the use of willows around ponds, I've been 
> > > told
> that
> > > a problem with them is the amount of seasonal shedding of twigs.dylan
> >
> > ???  So they dump loads of twigs?  I suppose they float ...  I take 
> > it that
> people see
> > that as a problem because it plugs the outlet?
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > permaculture mailing list
> > permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture
>
> --
> Keith Johnson
> Permaculture Activist Magazine
> PO Box 1209
> Black Mountain, NC 28711
> (828)669-6336
>
> also Patterns for Abundance Design & Consulting
> Culture's Edge at Earthaven Ecovillage
> http://www.permacultureactivist.net
> http://www.earthaven.org
> http://www.bioregionalcongress.org
>
>
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