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  • From: "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net>
  • To: "Permaculture List" <permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] Liberal Democracies
  • Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:13:07 -0700 (PDT)

Aloha,

>>>Put your votes behind a really sound, constitution-oriented judicial
>>> system and a democratic political system
>>>that adheres to a solid capitalistic economy.
>
> Serious, not satire. You must be kidding not to find some value in the
> concept I described, something you considered a good idea.

Appealing mytho-generalizations is what I would call them. I've yet to
see any implementations that, in the daily reality of actual human beings,
enact even one of the PC ethics, let alone two or all three.

As someone already said, capitalism as it is lived (and as it is defined)
is in conflict with most anything I could imagine as a democracy,
especially a consensual (rather than marjority-rule/winner take all)
democracy. I'd also say it's in conflict with any sort of sustainbility
of ecological systems.

A judicial system, constitutionally based or otherwise, says nothing about
justice. Stalin had a judicial system, so did Hitler, so does the
Taliban, so did Saddam Hussein. I think most of them had constitutions
too. And now there's Ashcroft's (illegal) constitutional modifications -
not that he's the first in the USA to mistake a legal system for a system
of justice, or manipulate one to suit his own pathologies.

'Constitutional', 'judicial', 'democratic', 'capitalist' - these are IMO
like "the mainstream" in that they are dangerous and mythical
over-generalizations, and useless as design parameters. When I observe
actual implementations, I am not impressed. That is not to say there are
not worse systems also implemented. I'd still rather not settle for the
lesser of existing evils.

> Without knowing you I'd say you appear to be a hard case.

Could be - I don't know what you mean by "hard case." I know that there
are plenty of brutal and inhumane consequences of our supposed

>>>constitution-oriented judicial system
>>>and a democratic political system
>>>that adheres to a solid capitalistic economy

that I don't like. And of course it could be worse, and so what? It
could also be better.




John Schinnerer, MA
-------------------------
- Eco-Living -
Cultural & Ecological Designing
People - Place - Learning - Integration
john@eco-living.net
http://eco-living.net




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