permaculture

[Santoyo & Associates <santoyo@earthflow.com>]

Hello all,

I admit that I haven't been following this too closely but... I was 
just wondering a similar thing as John Shinerer below, not just about 
franks(soon to be)farm but several other developing sites...  I have 
a few clients, and wanna be clients, that seem paralyzed by too much 
information. They end up looking for a fast cheap way to launch their 
projects and enterprises (and some don't even want to pay for the 
cheap way!)... that's fine, with me (I guess cause I have plenty of 
work) but it seems that part of what we are teaching is Bill's thing 
about "as soon as we start doing... we learn how to proceed."  For 
me, (as much as I hate to admit that Bill was right about yet another 
thing!) this has been true more times than not, even with the best 
laid (or paid for) plans...

What I always recommend is first) if you don't want to pay for a 
consult -take a design course or two, or better yet, host one (every 
teacher I know has some kind of work trade or something to save 
students money and a host always makes out)... Second) go home and 
try something... third) THEN ask me again.

With all that energy going into it, instead of a charrette why don't 
you guys try the tried and true method of conducting a permaculture 
design course?  I'll bet that in addition to empowering a whole 
classroom full of people, that, as a byproduct, all of Franks issues 
get solved too!.. not to mention, you'll be making/collecting capital 
and trade resources for you guys and for Frank's project...

Good luck,


Larry Santoyo
EarthFlow Design Works
San Luis Obispo, Ca
800.469.5857
www.earthflow.com


> Aloha,
>
> Not being shy, I've got a question for all potentially involved in
> this:
>
> >  Here's your chance to participate in a real world PC Design
> >  Challenge on
> >  a 450 farm preserve in beautiful south central Kentucky; and to help
> >  demonstrate that PC can work on such a scale.
> >  ...
> >  If we could get everyone together for 3-5 days we should be able to
> >  gather
> >  enough detailed observations to begin the PC Simulation in earnest
> >  via a forum on the Internet.
> >  ...
> >  So, don't be shy please let me hear from you soon. We'll need to do a
> >  lot of preliminary planning, and coordination to make this work:)
>
> For a while lately we've had a 'design charette' thread going on the
> list for Frank's farm.  What I've observed is this:
>
> 1) Frank, you ask lots of good questions relevant to PC designing for
> your land. 
>
> 2) List, we give him lots of good (or at least interesting and/or zany
> :-) answers. 
>
> 3) Frank, you are consistently appreciative of our feedback and input.
> You also consistently write that in most cases you do not have one,
> some or all of the time, money, person-power or equipment to implement
> what you often agree are good design ideas on your fairly large spread.
>
> 4) Repeat from step 1) above.
>
> My question is:  what are y'all going to do differently before and/or
> during getting together in person at Frank's place so that you don't
> simply repeat the above pattern?
>
> Assuming you don't want to just repeat it in person, that is.  I
> personally would find it rather frustrating, were I in the shoes of any
> party to such a situation.
>
>
> =====
> John Schinnerer, MA
> -------------------------
> - Eco-Living -
> Cultural & Ecological Designing
> Food - Water - Shelter - Community - Technology
> john@eco-living.net
> http://eco-living.net
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture


--