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  • From: Mark <mpludwig@facstaff.wisc.edu>
  • To: permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [permaculture] "thirsty " trees....
  • Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 11:24:31 -0500

At 07:21 AM 9/7/02 -0700, you wrote:
Interesting...
So many observations leading to opposing viewpoints....
Sometimes I wonder whether we aren't missing a huge piece of the puzzle. I'm
just reading a whole bunch of bio-dynamics stuff and my mind is opening to other
possibilities.

To me this points to multiple possible fundamental different permacultures rather than the one true design.

What if...water had an affinity for certain plants, but not others? We know
about allelopathic effects of plants, we know that many organisms produce
hydrophobic substances.....

I think its more simple than that. Three factors - 1 rate of rainfall infiltration influenced by soil type, slope and vegetation and 2 rate of transpiration, 3 deep soil factors like underlying rock or deep clay lenses.

What if.... it's just an "energy thing" and has nothing at all to do with the
vegetation? The Chinese call it "Feng-shui", Steiner calls it the "formative
etheric forces"....

Hmmm. To much for the barbarians....


One of the books I just read is "Secrets of the Soil" by Thompkins and Bird.
Can't pretend I understand everything they talk about, but that just makes it
all the more intriguing. There is so much we can't explain with our current
scientific models. I know that my own view of nature is still mostly mechanic,
although I've always thought of myself as a "spiritual" person. Interesting
incongruity.

Heide

Read SOS years ago. Interesting but a little far out and esoteric. I think we do a whole lot better to focus on what soil science does know and add on BD, energy theorys etc. as secondary practices.

Kirby Fry wrote:

> Hello Heide,
>
> Another scenario in Central Texas is that if you remove all of the juniper
> trees, the springs supposedly flow longer.
>
> David Bambhurger of Bambhurger Ranch has been vigorously removing the
> junipers from his property for ten years and promoting tall grasses with the
> enthusiastic support of the ag extension services. Apparently he has
> actually increased spring flow.
>
> Of course, the local ranchers are all touting his work as an excuse to
> remove their juniper, often however, they ignore the tall grass part of the
> project and just let their cattle out on the newly cleared lands.
>
> I think what folks aren't realizing is that when the trees are present, the
> water is indeed there, but they're not seeing it because it's locked up in
> the trees and going to rehumidify the air. It's pretty when springs flow
> but essentially you're just moving the water on its way even faster. In
> Texas that means you're giving it up to the rice farmers along the Colorado
> and Brazos Rivers.
>
> Is there a point when tree cover actually increases spring flow?
>
> Kirby Fry
>
> For the real scoop on environmental and social justice issues check out the
> archives of Democracy Now!
> http://www.webactive.com/webactive/pacifica/demnow/archive.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> permaculture mailing list
> permaculture@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/permaculture

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Mark P. Ludwig
Poultry Research Lab
University of Wisconsin -Madison
608-262-1730 WK
608-846-7125 HM





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