permaculture

["Kirby Fry" <peace@totalaccess.net>]

Hello Frank,

450 acres is quite a spread!  Sounds like, though, that just over 100 acres
are actually open, grazable pasture.  Just going off of what the aggies
taught me at Texas A & M, each cow / calf unit needs about two acres to
sustain them.  So for a starter figure if you have 70 cow / calf units,
you'll need around 140 acres of pasture.  Does your extension agent dare to
make such gross guestimations? ;^>

Alan Savory on the other hand, says that the land can carry much more if the
livestock are part of an intensive rotation system.  Where he's gotten his
way they're moving the cattle every 8 - 12 hours.  Sounds like one would
need a couple of full time hands for something like that.  However, Savory
is pretty tight lipped when it comes to recommendations without actually
having seen the site.

>> less desirable trees like beech allowed to grow.  Virtually
unmanaged/untouched for Lord knows how many years.  <<

In what ways is beech less desirable?  In the way that sycamore, cottonwood
and willow are less desirable - in that they grow fast and become brittle?
If it hasn't been managed for 20 years, then it's probably better off than
if it had been managed, IMO.  You've probably got something going on that is
far more complex and balanced than if someone had been in there with a chain
saw culling less desirable trees.

>>  Since much of this debris is on the pasture side of the fence I NEED to
do something.  <<

Sounds like this is going to be a recurring problem.  My first response is
to push it into 20' x 60' brush piles with a dozer and let it stand as such.
You could also make the debris into dead barriers on contour or exclosures,
inside of which you can begin planting other trees and medicinal shrubs.
Our friends live on Lake Buchanan in Texas and when it floods the amount of
flotsam and jetsam on their shores is indeed staggering.

Burning the debris is tempting, but only something I would do as a temporary
solution.  As you get a handle on the many challenges you're facing you'll b
e able to fine tune your efforts and eventually phase out stop gap measures.

>> On the other eastern side of the pasture where the land runs from the
base of  the hills down to the bottoms there is about 35 acres of pasture
that includes many evergreens, and  some oak, beech,walnut and even a few
more species.  <<

So this is 35 of how many garazable acres?  Are the trees in the paddock or
on its margins?

>>  When we have heavy rainfalls, or considerable rain fall land can become
very wet, lots of boggy areas in low spots as land runs down to creeks. <<

You'd be amazed at what a healthy grass system can soak up.  The lusher your
pasture the less time water will stand.  Of course, in many ag fields
farmers put in terraces that are actually diversion ditches moving the water
off and around their crop fields.  Sort of the antithesis of a swale but
probably necessary where bogginess and equipment operation have to go
together.

>>  I'd rather not such cut 'em down as most locals advise to improve, and
expand pasture, make cultivation with machinery easier.  <<

You should carefully and respectfully filter what the locals and extension
agents tell you to do.  I'm sure there's a lot of old time wisdom there, but
there are also a lot of attitudes that run very contrary to permaculture
ethics and principles.  For instance, our local USNRCS, does not recommend
swaling because 1) they can blow out, and 2) they fill up with silt and stop
working so well after about 20 years.  These things are both true, but when
care of the earth is your main ethic, doing a little swale repair is nothing
and that they fill up with silt is an indicator that the DO work.

Also the aggies would have you take down all willows around a stock pond
because they drink water and destabilize your dam.  This also is true to a
degree, but all trees drink water, including our beloved live oak, and
destabilizing one's dam may be a minor consequence compared to the
ecological stability and diversity that results from a tree community around
a pond.  Ever noticed how terrible a stock pond can look with nothing around
it but trampled mud and grass and cow manure?

The only function of a stock pond, according to many ranchers, is to provide
water.  This single function attitude is contrary to the Pc principle of
gaining the highest number of functions per component.

>>  Some of these areas tend to be especially boggy.  <<

The trees are there, probably, because of the standing water.  Without them
the water would stand for much longer.  Many of the true tall grasses, e.g.
for Texas, big blue stem, are part of a climax plant community with the live
oak tree.  So maybe the next step is to establish a water loving tall grass
under those trees - Indian grass, eastern gamma grass, others?  Work with
Nature rather than against Her.

Gotta run for now, Frank.  Lots more to discuss.  I'll finish up as soon as
I can.  Cheers,


Kirby Fry

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