permaculture

[FranksFarm@aol.com]

Good day Kirby:)

<< I'd be happy to hammer out details too.>>

Fantastic! Especially since we are "on the same page". For years I've read, 
read and read lots of books, mags, texts on topics like Sustainable Ag, 
Biodynamic Framing, Organic Gardening,Permaculture. I was especially 
influenced by Bill Mollison's permaculture Manual since the ideas he 
expressed closely mirrored my leanings; desire to work with nature, the 
importance of the soil, all God's creatures etc.

But now I've finally left the city, and bought the farm. It's a 450 acre farm 
which contain over 450 acres. The farm is ringed on 3 sides by over 325 acres 
of mixed hardwood forest hills that have not been cut in 20 years or so; 
longer in other areas; less desirable trees like beech allowed to grow. 
Virtually unmanaged/untouched for Lord knows how many years.

The western side consists of 70 acres of bottom land alongside a pristine 
creek that for the most part is a gentle, ever flowing creek about at least a 
foot or so until fed by rains when it can get much deeper, and wider and 
become a raging torrent if extremely heavy rains fall in a short period of 
time. Creek just flooded over top of banks, and over fence lines this past 
May 17.02 and dropped tons of debris including numerous downed logs some over 
3' in diameter. Lots of decaying material but it's all caught in fence line 
or simply where dropped in field.

Lord if much of the smaller litter were thinly spread it would probably be a 
great soil enhancer. But the labor to move, cut up or burn all this stuff 
overwhelms me. There's well over a mile of fence involved. I've spent 3 full 
days burning some of it, and it looks as if I've done nothing!

Since much of this debris is on the pasture side of the fence I NEED to do 
something.

On the other eastern side of the pasture where the land runs from the base of 
the hills down to the bottoms there is about 35 acres of pasture that 
includes many evergreens, and  some oak, beech,walnut and even a few more 
species.

When we have heavy rainfalls, or considerable rain fall land can become very 
wet, lots of boggy areas in low spots as land runs down to creeks. Also much 
of the that acreage is very uneven, though gently sloping. There are some 
grown up "islands of smaller trees most less than a foot in diameter. These 
provide shade, and beauty to me. I'd rather not such cut 'em down as most 
locals advise to improve, and expand pasture, make cultivation with machinery 
easier. Some of these areas tend to be especially boggy.

Another 15 acre or so patch on the south western edge just prior to the 
bottoms receives much of the water from drainage channels from the nearby 
hills, and can be a swampy mess after rains, and whose low spots remain water 
filled except during really dry periods. Lots of wild roses, blackberries, 
elder trees, willows, some cherries, and other non-timber quality trees. 

I had a shallow water pond of about 1/2 acre dug and it filled quickly. Heavy 
clay soils hold water very well. Except I've found that simply providing a 
drain outlet of earth doesn't really work as it seems to erode, and let water 
start to drain away in wet weather. To make it worse it seems to back up in 
such weather creating standing water in an already swampy area; makes it 
almost impassable.

And on the other side of all these barbed wire fenced areas at the foot of 
the hills are woodlands of mixed age, mixed specie hardwoods. Long term I'd 
like to open up these areas for silvo pasture system. Land is fairly flat, 
gently sloping again prone to standing water in any natural collection spots.

Hills above such areas are generally fairly steeply sloped...especially at 
tops!

I planted over 500 of pin oak, persimmon, and cypress in a long narrow strip 
varying distances from the creek as it winds considerably though gently on my 
property. However on the extreme south western boundary there is a 90 degree 
bend which I now believe is the reason my farm in particular is susceptible 
to damage from floods. Stuff on my farm comes from miles up that creek!

Anyway most of the trees did not survive, as they were choked about by weeds, 
and other vegetation. I signed up for a Conservation buffer zone, but later 
found out some of the restrictions don't make sense. For example I was not 
permitted to mow the supposed areas that I was to keep in grass. The trees 
were planted in a tilled up swath within this area so eventually that we 
would shade the fence lines provide a picturesque alley for the farm road. 
Forestry wanted those trees protected from weeds etc. Conservation did not 
permit same! Go figure!

OK...back to the pasture. I've planned to do rotational grazing from the 
start but am only now beginning to put the system in place. There are some 
many options, so many different possible solutions that I'm trying to boil 
down to the "best" solution considering all the factors, my desire to allow 
the cattle to harvest as much as they can themselves; provide for their needs 
so they can maintain themselves with minimum of labor from me. I enjoy the 
cattle, and walk amongst them almost everyday. I've learned a lot from 
observing them. For the most part they have had the run of the farm, and have 
also run as a mixed herd since I'm still working on interior lots, and 
paddocks.

Eventually I'd like to run 2 separate groups of cattle of 50 to 75 head. 
Right now I have 108 head including calves. I say about 70 animal units.

I'm just now beginning to put in electric fence, and paddocks. I've talked to 
so many folks and frankly there have been lots of broad yet often different 
answers given by locals, extension etc.

So far plan I like best is dividing those bottom pasture lengthwise north to 
south, and then further subdividing east to west into as many paddocks as 
needed. I'm planning to run water lines underneath electric temporary fencing 
so I can provide water from creek to each paddock. I've just "ditch witched 
about a 1000' and have another 1000' to go.
So far best answer to get water is to use an electric suction type pump 
rather than portable gasoline type since I need to make system as automatic 
as possible. By the way at the spot where there is an electric pole there are 
no really deep spots during drier weather ...only about 2' deep but water is 
always running. Is this a problem for a suction pump? Do I need to dig a 
deeper pool for dry times? Do I need to protect same from filling with gravel 
etc. from running stream?

Any suggestions on specific pump /brand. I'm planning on using 1" black pipe 
with a minimum of 200PSI . I'll bury it well below frost line...probably went 
too deep I'm down perhaps 3' or more...where 30" is considered fine by most 
authorities. Many people go only 18-24". I tend to be over conservative in 
such.

However the electric pole is also toward the lower end of the line! It would 
be better on the southern most since the land slopes south to north. So if it 
were it would be gravity assisted. So I'm pushing slightly uphill for 2/3's 
the distance. I'd guess total height from bottom of creek at electric is 15' 
and then possibly another 5-10' higher at southern end.

Plus I'll have at least 4 water hydrants in each of the two fenced fields of 
ca 30 acres.

Paddock Size

One of my biggest problems is trying to figure out how much grass I have, and 
how much I need to adequately feed my cattle, and achieve good gains. I'm 
lousy at estimating by eye. And converting the rule of thumb of 3% of body 
weight to grass /paddock sizes is beyond me at this time. First there are 
sections within each field that vary in density and kind of forage. There are 
some low areas that hold moisture in standing water sometimes for days, which 
affects how well or poorly grasses do. Then there are other areas that have 
very sparse cover...perhaps from compaction or excessive drainage?

I'm trying to thicken pastures which were in poor shape when I bought the 
farm. I've been liming, sowing seed , fertilizing etc. One year I no till 
drilled a mix of clovers, fescue, and orchard grass. I had mixed results 
because weather that spring was very droughty. Some areas that were no tilled 
were extremely crusted/hard so that there may not have been adequate soil to 
seed contact. Yet the extension agent told me in some areas I had the best 
clover in the county! But not enough of it, and not uniform.

The next season I winter frost seeded on Feb 17.02 a mix of white, and red 
clover.
The clover in one area that looked so good didn't make a uniform stand like 
the year before but there was clover all over the field. I cut the N 30 acres 
for hay when the clover was just past bloom( wet weather did not permit 
earlier cutting). I only got about 40 large 5*6' round bales. Far less than I 
had hoped. Some folks get 3 or more bales per acre around here.

Then we had the flood, and the clover in the hay field really came on. With 
adequate rain fall the clover and grass thickened. I was not sure that the 
quantity of hay would justify expense of running machinery. But I need hay, 
and so extension fellow said he'd cut it...1) so I'd gain some experience in 
cutting/baling which I'd never done before, and 2) since I'd get a feel for 
number of bales at that height in that field. So when clover was just 
blooming or just about to bloom I cut it at 2' or so for clover, higher for 
grasses in most areas with some sparser areas. Well, I only got 15 bales.

By the way one of the areas that was very sparse had a great stand of clover 
after the flood.

Since I cut it has been very hot and humid with sporadic, probably 
insufficient rain fall.
Grasses and clovers started out real well, but have not grown much lately. 
Clover is starting to bloom. Only Johnson grass is making good growth and 
that is primarily at margins of fields near fence lines, and some volunteer 
growth throughout.

Now I'm torn since I'd like to get some hay off that field, but am concerned 
that the cattle have eaten down the other field too much, and it needs 
rest...and that there may not be enough grass for this size herd within the 
other 35 acres or so. I was hoping that grass growth in that area with the 
rains we have had recently might grow back as fast as the cattle could eat it 
down.

Just not sure. I'm seriously considering forgoing hay, which might amount to 
only 15 bales and letting the cattle out on that field. Of course I may have 
waited too long.

In planning paddocks despite what some I have said I'm trying to find a way 
to incorporate shade into as many paddocks as I can. The water, however, in 
the piped system will be in center of field where there is no shade. I'm 
really concerned whether cattle will drink as much as needed without shade.

On the eastern side of fields are woodlands with decent shade along the 
fences. So paddocks on that side would be OK. There's also a 2 acre island of 
primarily sycamore, wild roses, scrub towards the upper end of the N field. 
I'm thinking of setting up paddocks to allow access to this area where the 
cattle like to loaf.

On the western side of the N field there is little shade during the heat of 
the day except for the paddocks that will have access to the island.

On the S. field there is again some shade from the woodland and trees along 
the fence line for all those paddocks, on the western side there is little 
except for the paddock that contains a massive oak where the cattle like to 
go.

I'd like to rotate the cattle each day. Most down here who do rotational seem 
to favor 3 days. I'm told more animal pressure, and shorter rotations work 
best. But the shorter the rotation the larger the number of paddocks needed.

If I were to divide the N. pasture into 10 paddocks with 5 on each side of 
the centerline of ca 3 acres a piece how much grass/clover must each paddock 
produce to feed 70 growing animal units. I could do the same for the S. 
pasture.

Inside the gate there are 35 acres or so that I could divide up into perhaps 
8 paddocks. Shape of fields, barn, cattle facilities, bull pen, ponds, trees 
make this area tougher to break into paddocks. Perhaps actually a good deal 
less total grass available on these 35 acres due to above/shade, tree covered 
hillsides, etc. In addition soils are not as deep, or as well drained. And 
much harder clay during dry periods. Better footing for cattle but growth is 
not as lush. It is much improved over where it was though. And I'm continuing 
to expand fringes by cutting down wild roses, etc., cattle are also opening 
up trails, and some of wooded areas so that grass, etc., is beginning to grow 
in understory.

Whew...sorry for being so long winded I'm trying to give you a lot of detail. 
Really look forward to your reply, and to others on the list.

I'm trying to do the right thing:)  Thanks again.  Frank