Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

["Marty Cannon" <martyc AT frankscasing.com>]

but if reason and intellect is central, what need is there for respect
of others?

Is this about Percy? 

Marty

>>> karey1 AT charter.net 11/02/08 9:21 PM >>>
David,  I couldn't have said it better.

Here's the deal - the evidence was available and there - I saw it and
knew
it in 2001 and 2002 (though everyone I knew thought I was crazy) - there
were editorials in the NYTimes, articles on the front page (more on back
pages) of prominent newsmagazines and papers that presented the truth -
there was little to no justification for a war.  The uranium was not
there.
And every reason to go into Iraq was unsubstantiated.  Both the
Catholics
and the military have the same criteria for a "just war" and on EVERY
CRITERIA this war has failed.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Just_war_Doctrine_1.asp  Check it out.
WWPD?  He would have disagreed with this war.  Problem is, no one in
this
administration was ever (really) in the military (none in combat) and no
one
understood a thing about it - a confederacy of dunces.  What a tragedy
and
chaos has ensued. 

 (Powell was but he left because no one listened.)

Remember, Percy's admonition about hurricanes and the enthusiasm they
bring?
9/11 brought that.  I balked at every "patriotic" ritual after that
because
I knew it was based in "sentimentality" and not in truth.  No one
understood
that.

Some people have voluntarily abdicated their intellect in the favor of
ideology, sentimentality, and financial and political self interest.  To
the
detriment of all.

The frontrunner in this presidential race does not do that - and
operates on
intellect and reason, as does his team.  Hopefully he'll win and spark a
much needed sea change in this country -  and at the same time restore
the
respect of all other reasonable allies and nations.

KP

-----Original Message-----
From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Beck, David A
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2008 9:57 PM
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2

I agree with Marcus. Forced reconciliation? What a joke. I don't want 
to be unsympathetic with anyone in the military, but we can't paint 
this invasion in a good light. Bush told us that Saddam had WMD. That 
was a lie. Moreover, he lied about the uranium that was supposedly 
coming from Niger (the so-called yellow cake documents). We aren't 
starting a reconciliation; we are moving the mess from Iraq to 
Afghanistan. Nothing good will come from our imperialism--for us or for 
those whom we've invaded.

For those who think that our invasion will bring about peace in the 
middle east, I have lot in the back of my house that contains pieces of 
gold. But you need to buy before we foreclose.

Bob wrote:
>> There is a time for meeting aggression with greater
>> aggression in order to reduce aggression. Every cop knows
>> this.

Well, where is the aggression? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11; so how 
do we justify our aggression, our invasion of Iraq? For that matter, 
our invasion of Afghanistan had no basis. We pulled away without Bin 
Laden. Hmmm, why is that? My guess, based on the writings I've read and 
the interviews I've heard, is that Bin Laden died years ago. He was 
having kidney failure in 2001!!

World peace? Based on our invasion of Iraq? Come on! We've created a 
nightmare, one in which the Iranians and the Russians are now involved.

I realize that little of the above has anything to do with Percy (and 
I'm not going to do the mental gymnastics to bend it that way); 
however, we can't justify our imperialism, by saying that we will force 
the Sunnis and the Shiites to get along. Ain't going to happen.

Hope I didn't offend, but it's nice to see some life on the list again. 
But the "forced reconciliation" phrase lit my fire.

-David


Quoting marcus AT loyno.edu:

> Forced...Religious...Reconciliation?
>
> I'm sorry.  I lived in Beirut for six years.
>
> You do not understand what you are saying.
>
> Marcus Smith
>
> ----- Original Message Follows -----
> From: percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
> To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2
> Date: Sun, 02 Nov 2008 13:21:30 -0500
>
>> Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to
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>> specific than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9 (Tommy
>> Armstrong)
>>    2. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>>       (Eckert, Robert G SPC MIL USA FORSCOM)
>>    3. Re: Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9 (Wade Riddick)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> ------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 13:52:51 -0400
>> From: "Tommy Armstrong" <tfa AT brickengraver.com>
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> To: "'Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion'"
>>     <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAE/eb95kvntOisVHhysY03/iwQAAEAAAAI
>> CCMAWkZ45OjTe08LpJmBIBAAAAAA== AT brickengraver.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "You do not seem to have much use for your fellow
>> Christians, to say nothing of Ku Kluxers, ACLUers,
>> Northerners, Southerners, fem-libbers, anti-fem-libbers,
>> homosexuals, anti-homosexuals, Republicans, Democrats,
>> hippies, anti-hippies, senior citizens."
>>
>> That's true-though, taken as individuals, they turn out to
>> be more or less like oneself, i.e., sinners, and we get
>> along fine.
>>
>> Even Ku Kluxers?
>>
>> Sure"
>>
>>
>>
>> Questions They Never Asked Me
>>
>> Signposts In A Strange Land
>>
>> Page 418
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds to me like Mr. Riddick has a bit of ideological
>> rigidity himself when he writes:
>>
>>
>>
>> 3.  Bush has an ideological rigidity/born-again
>> certainty/willful
>>
>> ignorance/autistic negligence that leads him to stumble
>> through life like
>>
>> Don Quixote on meth.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> The same could equally apply to Pelosi, Obama, Barney
>> Frank, Ted Kennedy, Common Cause, etc.  as well as Bush,
>> Cheney, et al.
>>
>> But then again much of that statement could apply to
>> everyone as we stumble along our journey. I have never met
>> an individual in my life that did not reflect to one
>> degree or another those "qualities".
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Tommy Armstrong
>>
>> BrickEngraver LLC
>>
>>
>>
>> www.brickengraver.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Jack Aubrey:
>>
>> "Oh dear oh dear, I seem fated to move from one blunder to
>> another today. I shall hold my tongue or what remains of
>> it."
>>
>> Stephen Maturin:
>>
>> "Where would conversation be if we were not allowed to
>> exchange our views freely and abuse our neighbors now and
>> again."
>>
>>
>>
>> Patrick O'Brian Forturne of War--Patrick O'Brian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> [mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
>> Wade Riddick Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2008 04:03
>> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2008 22:44:15 -0500
>> From: "Eckert, Robert G SPC MIL USA FORSCOM"
>>     <robert.g.eckert AT us.army.mil>
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>>     <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <f6f88f6ab93.490cdbbf AT us.army.mil>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> It was a Thursday evening, not a Wednesday afternoon--but
>> my excuse still is boredom.
>>
>> Percy was a philosopher, not a philosopholigist. He would
>> be debating this war.
>>
>> The premise for the war was presumably false. CBRN WMD
>> have not been found. (Although absence of evidence is not
>> evidence of absence).
>>
>> What may be occurring is a forced reconciliation between
>> Sunnis and Shiites. 1300 years of conflict within Islam
>> being dealt with.
>>
>> There is a time for meeting aggression with greater
>> aggression in order to reduce aggression. Every cop knows
>> this.
>>
>> War is controlled aggression. Messy, yes. But no army
>> conducts themselves better under such strenuous
>> circumstances as the US Army.
>>
>> The US Army is in a unique position to force a world
>> peace. We are the most powerful, and also the most
>> multicultural army the world has ever seen. The only
>> ethnic group I have not seen represented is the aboriginal
>> Australians. And I bet there is at least one in our Army.
>>
>> BTW, the most decorated soldier in my unit is a Muslim
>> from Ghana.
>>
>> This war goes way beyond American Imperialism, it is
>> religious reconciliation stuff.
>>
>>   Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: marcus AT loyno.edu
>> Date: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:49
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>>
>> > I think Bob has every right to raise the questions he
>> > does (though not sure they warrant posting on this list)
>> > , but I think using WP as a reference point or
>> > touchstone for verification of events and policies in
>> > the present world--such as the decision to invade
>> > Iraq--is asking for impossible. My experience with Percy
>> > is that he was predictable and unpredictable, always
>> > nuanced in ways that caught me by surprise. And the
>> > reason for this is that he remained alert and
>> > ingtellectually (and spiritually) active all the way to
>> > the end.
>> > I think Percy probably would not see history an
>> > allegorical figure. "Will history agree...." Obviously,
>> > yes and no for a very long time. Maybe forever. Does
>> > "history" agree on the Crusades? Are you going to submit
>> > this question to Southern Baptists? Moslem scholars?
>> >
>> > Other may have different opinions.
>> >
>> > Marcus Smith
>> > New Orleans
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message Follows -----
>> > From: percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > Subject: Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> > Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2008 13:21:33 -0400
>> >
>> > > Send Percy-L mailing list submissions to
>> > > percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > >
>> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web,
>> > > visit
>> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l or,
>> > > via email, send a message with subject or body 'help'
>> > > to percy-l-request AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > >
>> > > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > > percy-l-owner AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > >
>> > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is
>> > > more specific than "Re: Contents of Percy-L digest..."
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Today's Topics:
>> > >
>> > > 1. War :Christianity, Islam and Judaism
>> > > (Eckert, Robert G SPC MIL USA FORSCOM)
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> > > ------------
>> > > Message: 1
>> > > Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 20:44:10 -0500
>> > > From: "Eckert, Robert G SPC MIL USA FORSCOM"
>> > > <
>> > > Subject: [percy-l] War :Christianity, Islam and
>> > > Judaism To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > > Message-ID: <
>> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> > >
>> > > List,
>> > >
>> > > Would Percy consider the present war in Iraq a waste
>> > > of time or the beginning of something good?
>> > >
>> > > Are we wasting lives and money on foolishness, or are
>> > > we beginning the process of communication and
>> > > community formation between disparate cultures that
>> > > has since time immemorial begun with bloodshed?
>> > >
>> > > Can Islam, Judaism and Christianity find common ground
>> > > upon which we cooperate with each other, not kill each
>> > > other?
>> > >
>> > > I think Bush made the right decision. Mistakes, of
>> > > course.
>> > > Will history agree that the effort and lives and
>> > > injury and labor of our service members was worth it?
>> > >
>> > > Bob
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > -------------- next part --------------
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>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Percy-L mailing list
>> > > Percy-L AT lists.ibiblio.org
>> > > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/percy-l
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> > > **************************************
>> > --
>> > An archive of all list discussion is available at
>> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
>> > Visit the Walker Percy Project at
>> http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2008 02:04:05 -0600
>> From: Wade Riddick <wriddick AT usa.net>
>> Subject: Re: [percy-l] Percy-L Digest, Vol 58, Issue 9
>> To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>>     <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <v04003a01c532e876f99d@[192.168.0.5]>
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>>
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>> End of Percy-L Digest, Vol 59, Issue 2
>> **************************************
> --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
>
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>



--
An archive of all list discussion is available at
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy

--
An archive of all list discussion is available at
https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/

Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy