Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

["Jonathan Potter" <jdp AT scn.org>]

To bring it back around to what Rich was saying, I think there's a larger framework for Percy -- a sacramental framework -- within which the priest, "the other," the Jews, the natural world, Binx's dung beetle -- all function sacramentally as signs of God's grace, or triggers for awakening to the mysterious and gratuitous gift that existence is, and signs that point the wayfarer onward -- the footprint in the sand, the thread in the labyrinth, all those recurring Percy motifs that are ultimately woven into a sacramental fabric -- but writ large in the Incarnation, the Church, the magisterial tradition, the deposit of faith handed down from the apostles and transmitted by concrete acts and gestures: laying on of hands, ingesting Christ's body and blood, enjoying that Sears Best mattress and twining as the ivy twineth, etc.

 

 

--Jonathan

 

On 4/10/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:

David,

It makes perfect sense to me. In fact, that's the place where Percy differed
from Kierkegaard. Whereas Kierkegaard saw that transition to the religious
as a solitary movement, made without temporal aid, Percy makes "the other" a
necessary component of salvation--its like that vision of the maculate
Christ is LITR (which, long ago, was the starting point of this
conversation)

--Rhonda
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats


>From: "Beck,  David A" <dabeck AT iupui.edu >
>Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
><percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
>Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>Date: Sun,  9 Apr 2006 20:32:21 -0400
>
>Rich,
>You wrote:
> > Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me.
> > I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every
> > novel.  For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an
> > event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing .  You can
> > use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest,
> > you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters
> > talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to.
> >
>Sounds like a great M.A. thesis or dissertation. It seems the
>priest/grace works in various ways. In Lancelot, I would argue (and did
>many years ago) that Fr. John's return to his faith came through his
>interaction with the other (Lance). In other words, grace is a two-way
>street. It doesn't have to come via clergy. What's interesting about
>Lancelot is that the priest is the main character, in the sense that he
>is the one who changes. With Lance, we are left wondering. But Fr. John
>has definitely returned to his Catholic faith.
>What makes Percy a great writer is that, much like what Bakhtin said of
>Dostoevsky, he lets the characters evolve through their ideas and
>interactions. He doesn't have a set agenda (i.e. dogma) to which he
>shapes his characters. Much like Dostoevsky, he seems to take
>characters with particular ideas, winds them up, and lets them go. In a
>"dogmatic" novel, Lance would've experienced some dramatic change. But
>he didn't.
>In the same way, Binx's "conversion" is subtle and easily missed by
>someone not looking for the kind of grace that shoots through certain
>novels/stories (much in the way that grace flashes like lightning in
>Flannery O'Connor's stories--easily missed by those who read only on
>the surface).
>In LITR, More's "conversion" is also subtle. Again, the priest seems to
>offer insights that help move More along the way, but, even in the end,
>More still thinks that his lapsometer could "save the world."
>So, it seems to me, that the priesthood plays an important part in
>Percy, but perhaps not as important as "the other", in general. Percy
>seems to use the other as a way to salvation/conversion, and the other
>doesn't have to be clergy.
>Does that make sense?
>-David
>
>Quoting "Gray, Rich" <RGray AT montreat.edu>:
>
> > Rhonda and Jonathan,
> >
> > I have been away for several days while you have been working on the
> > question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby.  A useful
> > conversation.
> >
> > As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more
> > insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels.
> >
> > I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father."  Him
> > substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with
> > Jack deferring to the institution's residents.
> >
> > Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and
> > practiced for centuries.  Jack Curl seems not to have this
> > ancient-based theology.  His beliefs are sociological.
> >
> > Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me.
> > I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every
> > novel.  For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an
> > event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing .  You can
> > use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest,
> > you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters
> > talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to.
> >
> > How does this sound?
> >
> > Rich
> >
> >     -----Original Message-----
> >     From: Jonathan Potter [mailto: jdp AT scn.org]
> >     Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM
> >     To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >     Cc:
> >     Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >
> >
> >     You're absolutely right.  I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee
> > ought to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things.
> >
> >     I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two
> > collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the
> > interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell
> > whether Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong
> > track, whether he is deluded or has got part of the message which may
> > lead him to the whole truth."
> >
> >     To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American,
> > latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological
> > revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel.  It
> > involves Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest
> > [Weatherbee] who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the
> > younger priest [Curl]." (More Conversations, p. 48)
> >
> >     I guess you could expand the original question about priests to
> > consider Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's
> > novels.  Val would be one to consider for sure.  And I would add
> > Lonnie from The Moviegoer, along with Fr. Smith and Percival.  I'm
> > not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it
> > seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job with Jamie's baptism --
> > but I can't remember whether he appears earlier.
> >
> >     --Jonathan
> >
> >
> >     On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:
> >
> >             You're right, Episcopalian is the American term.  For what it's worth,
> >             chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany
>desk
> >             with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes."
>Both
> >             Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why
>Percy
> >             made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't
>have
> >             the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's
>rant:
> >
> >             How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at
> > the same
> >             time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How
>impatient!
> >             How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How
>pleasure-loving!
> >             How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more
> > than any
> >             other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so
>selfish
> >             and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot
> >             believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with
>shame.
> >             Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more
>and
> >             more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do
>you
> >             hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and
>thank
> >             God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most
>generous
> >             people on earth are so unhappy?"
> >
> >             He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't
>that
> >             his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question
> >             beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a
> > good one.
> >             It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val
> > from Last
> >             Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith?
> >             --Rhonda
> >             The best lack all convictions, while the worst
> >             Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
> >
> >
> >             >From: "Jonathan Potter" <jdp AT scn.org>
> >             >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> >             >< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org> >
> >             >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> >             ><percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> >             >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >             >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700
> >             >
> >             >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end,
>grabbing
> >             >his
> >             >arm) was Roman Catholic.  It's been awhile since I've read it, but
>I'm
> >             >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was
> >             >Anglican/Episcopalian.
> >             >
> >             >Jonathan Potter
> >             >Spokane WA
> >             >
> >             >
> >             >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com
> > <mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> > wrote:
> >             > >
> >             > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits
>and
> >             >acts
> >             > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The
>second
> >             >was
> >             > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is
> >             > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple),
>holy
> >             >face?
> >             > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft
>but
> >             >he's
> >             > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying
> >             >attention
> >             > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the
> > important
> >             > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are
>Anglican
> >             >(as
> >             > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot).
> >             > >
> >             > > --Rhonda
> >             > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst
> >             > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
> >             > >
> >             > >
> >             > > >From: <Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com>
> >             > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> >             > > >< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> >             > > >To: <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org >
> >             > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >             > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700
> >             > > >
> >             > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming.
> >  I don't
> >             > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage
>Will
> >             > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise
>come
> >             > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme
> >             > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found
>simultaneously
> >             > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community.  The second was
>an
> >             > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final,
> >             > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver."  I
>found
> >             > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a
>solidly
> >             > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an
> > effective
> >             > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age"
>enthusiasms
> >             >are
> >             > > >hilarious), and a touching love story.  Not easy to pull off.  It
> >             > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide
>to a
> >             > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey
> > flourishes
> >             > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward.
> >             >Basically,
> >             > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head.  I also
> >             > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after
>leaving
> >             > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before.
> >             > > >
> >             > > >Peace.
> >             > > >
> >             > > >________________________________
> >             > > >
> >             > > >From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >             > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye,
>Steve
> >             > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM
> >             > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >             > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >             > > >
> >             > > >
> >             > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to
>see
> >             > > >the responses you get!
> >             > > >
> >             > > >Steven L. Dye, MA
> >             > > >Director
> >             > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc.
> >             > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338
> >             > > >Lexington, KY 40511
> >             > > >
> >             > > >-----Original Message-----
> >             > > >From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> >             > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > <mailto: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org> ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich
> >             > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM
> >             > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >             > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >             > > >
> >             > > >
> >             > > >
> >             > > >________________________________
> >             > > >
> >             > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye AT bluegrass.org ]
> >             > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM
> >             > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> >             > > >
> >             > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels?
>  Is
> >             > > >there any common thread?
> >             > > >
> >             > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest?  The role grows into a main
> >             > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith.  There
>must
> >             > > >be a purpose for these priests.
> >             > > >
> >             > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy
> >             > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic.
> >             > > >
> >             > > >Rich Gray
> >             > >
> >             > >
> >             > > >--
> >             > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at
> >             > > >https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> >             > > >
> >             > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >             > >
> >             > > _________________________________________________________________
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> >             > > --
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> >             > >
> >             > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >             > >
> >
> >
> >             >--
> >             >An archive of all list discussion is available at
> >             > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> > <http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/>
> >             >
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> >
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> >
> >             Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>--
>An archive of all list discussion is available at
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>
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