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Subject: Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion on Walker Percy

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  • From: "Beck, David A" <dabeck AT iupui.edu>
  • To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
  • Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:32:21 -0400

Rich,
You wrote:
Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me.
I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every
novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an
event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can
use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest,
you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters
talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to.

Sounds like a great M.A. thesis or dissertation. It seems the priest/grace works in various ways. In Lancelot, I would argue (and did many years ago) that Fr. John's return to his faith came through his interaction with the other (Lance). In other words, grace is a two-way street. It doesn't have to come via clergy. What's interesting about Lancelot is that the priest is the main character, in the sense that he is the one who changes. With Lance, we are left wondering. But Fr. John has definitely returned to his Catholic faith.
What makes Percy a great writer is that, much like what Bakhtin said of Dostoevsky, he lets the characters evolve through their ideas and interactions. He doesn't have a set agenda (i.e. dogma) to which he shapes his characters. Much like Dostoevsky, he seems to take characters with particular ideas, winds them up, and lets them go. In a "dogmatic" novel, Lance would've experienced some dramatic change. But he didn't.
In the same way, Binx's "conversion" is subtle and easily missed by someone not looking for the kind of grace that shoots through certain novels/stories (much in the way that grace flashes like lightning in Flannery O'Connor's stories--easily missed by those who read only on the surface).
In LITR, More's "conversion" is also subtle. Again, the priest seems to offer insights that help move More along the way, but, even in the end, More still thinks that his lapsometer could "save the world."
So, it seems to me, that the priesthood plays an important part in Percy, but perhaps not as important as "the other", in general. Percy seems to use the other as a way to salvation/conversion, and the other doesn't have to be clergy.
Does that make sense?
-David

Quoting "Gray, Rich" <RGray AT montreat.edu>:

Rhonda and Jonathan,

I have been away for several days while you have been working on the
question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby. A useful
conversation.

As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more
insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels.

I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father." Him
substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with
Jack deferring to the institution's residents.

Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and
practiced for centuries. Jack Curl seems not to have this
ancient-based theology. His beliefs are sociological.

Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me.
I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every
novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an
event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can
use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest,
you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters
talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to.

How does this sound?

Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp AT scn.org]
Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM
To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
Cc:
Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR


You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee
ought to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things.

I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two
collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the
interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell
whether Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong
track, whether he is deluded or has got part of the message which may
lead him to the whole truth."

To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American,
latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological
revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It
involves Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest
[Weatherbee] who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the
younger priest [Curl]." (More Conversations, p. 48)

I guess you could expand the original question about priests to
consider Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's
novels. Val would be one to consider for sure. And I would add
Lonnie from The Moviegoer, along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm
not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it
seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job with Jamie's baptism --
but I can't remember whether he appears earlier.

--Jonathan


On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:

You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what
it's worth,
chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's
mahogany desk
with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican
crucifixes." Both
Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember
is why Percy
made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but
I don't have
the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr.
Weatherbee's rant:

How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth,
and at
the same
time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless!
How impatient!
How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How
pleasure-loving!
How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we
have more
than any
other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet
are so selfish
and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure?
I cannot
believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me
blush with shame.
Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is
why more and
more people beat their children. Children interfere with
pleasure. Do you
hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great
blessings and thank
God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest
most generous
people on earth are so unhappy?"

He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer
(wasn't that
his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The
question
beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests,
is a
good one.
It looks like he's working from two types--my question is,
can Val
from Last
Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith?
--Rhonda
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats


>From: "Jonathan Potter" <jdp AT scn.org>
>Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>
>To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
><percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700
>
>I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the
end, grabbing
>his
>arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read
it, but I'm
>pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that
was
>Anglican/Episcopalian.
>
>Jonathan Potter
>Spokane WA
>
>
>On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com
<mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> > wrote:
> >
> > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the
jumpsuits and
>acts
> > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl
maybe? The second
>was
> > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of
Americans is
> > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or
simple), holy
>face?
> > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to
be daft but
>he's
> > really the one that's onto something that no one else is
paying
>attention
> > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks
him the
important
> > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming
are Anglican
>(as
> > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot).
> >
> > --Rhonda
> > The best lack all convictions, while the worst
> > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
> >
> >
> > >From: <Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com>
> > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical
Discussion"
> > >< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > >To: <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700
> > >
> > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second
Coming.
I don't
> > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to
encourage Will
> > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and
otherwise come
> > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the
extreme
> > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found
simultaneously
> > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The
second was an
> > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into
his final,
> > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a
giver." I found
> > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and
accessible: a solidly
> > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and
self-delusion, an
effective
> > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age"
enthusiasms
>are
> > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull
off. It
> > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to
suicide to a
> > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of
dopey
flourishes
> > >of so many other social satires of the time - and
afterward.
>Basically,
> > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his
head. I also
> > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett
after leaving
> > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before.
> > >
> > >Peace.
> > >
> > >________________________________
> > >
> > >From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of
Dye, Steve
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM
> > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> > >
> > >
> > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be
interesting to see
> > >the responses you get!
> > >
> > >Steven L. Dye, MA
> > >Director
> > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc.
> > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338
> > >Lexington, KY 40511
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
<mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org> ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM
> > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >________________________________
> > >
> > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye AT bluegrass.org ]
> > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM
> > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> > >
> > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in
Percy's novels? Is
> > >there any common thread?
> > >
> > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into
a main
> > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo
Smith. There must
> > >be a purpose for these priests.
> > >
> > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if
Catholic Percy
> > >readers see any of these priests as realistic.
> > >
> > >Rich Gray
> >
> >
> > >--
> > >An archive of all list discussion is available at
> > >https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> > >
> > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at
http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >
> >
_________________________________________________________________
> > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download
today - it's
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> >
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> >
> > --
> > An archive of all list discussion is available at
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> >
> > Visit the Walker Percy Project at
http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> >


>--
>An archive of all list discussion is available at
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
<https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/>
>
>Visit the Walker Percy Project at
http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy


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