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Subject: Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion on Walker Percy

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  • From: "RHONDA MCDONNELL" <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com>
  • To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
  • Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
  • Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:54:45 -0700

David,

It makes perfect sense to me. In fact, that's the place where Percy differed from Kierkegaard. Whereas Kierkegaard saw that transition to the religious as a solitary movement, made without temporal aid, Percy makes "the other" a necessary component of salvation--its like that vision of the maculate Christ is LITR (which, long ago, was the starting point of this conversation)

--Rhonda
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats


From: "Beck, David A" <dabeck AT iupui.edu>
Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion" <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
To: percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:32:21 -0400

Rich,
You wrote:
> Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me.
> I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every
> novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an
> event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can
> use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest,
> you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters
> talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to.
>
Sounds like a great M.A. thesis or dissertation. It seems the
priest/grace works in various ways. In Lancelot, I would argue (and did
many years ago) that Fr. John's return to his faith came through his
interaction with the other (Lance). In other words, grace is a two-way
street. It doesn't have to come via clergy. What's interesting about
Lancelot is that the priest is the main character, in the sense that he
is the one who changes. With Lance, we are left wondering. But Fr. John
has definitely returned to his Catholic faith.
What makes Percy a great writer is that, much like what Bakhtin said of
Dostoevsky, he lets the characters evolve through their ideas and
interactions. He doesn't have a set agenda (i.e. dogma) to which he
shapes his characters. Much like Dostoevsky, he seems to take
characters with particular ideas, winds them up, and lets them go. In a
"dogmatic" novel, Lance would've experienced some dramatic change. But
he didn't.
In the same way, Binx's "conversion" is subtle and easily missed by
someone not looking for the kind of grace that shoots through certain
novels/stories (much in the way that grace flashes like lightning in
Flannery O'Connor's stories--easily missed by those who read only on
the surface).
In LITR, More's "conversion" is also subtle. Again, the priest seems to
offer insights that help move More along the way, but, even in the end,
More still thinks that his lapsometer could "save the world."
So, it seems to me, that the priesthood plays an important part in
Percy, but perhaps not as important as "the other", in general. Percy
seems to use the other as a way to salvation/conversion, and the other
doesn't have to be clergy.
Does that make sense?
-David

Quoting "Gray, Rich" <RGray AT montreat.edu>:

> Rhonda and Jonathan,
>
> I have been away for several days while you have been working on the
> question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby. A useful
> conversation.
>
> As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more
> insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels.
>
> I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father." Him
> substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with
> Jack deferring to the institution's residents.
>
> Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and
> practiced for centuries. Jack Curl seems not to have this
> ancient-based theology. His beliefs are sociological.
>
> Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me.
> I think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every
> novel. For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an
> event at which a priest oversees the giving of blessing . You can
> use a priest to show the presence of grace, whereas without a priest,
> you must use symbolic settings, characters praying, characters
> talking about their faith, and scripture quoted or alluded to.
>
> How does this sound?
>
> Rich
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp AT scn.org]
> Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM
> To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>
>
> You're absolutely right. I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee
> ought to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things.
>
> I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two
> collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the
> interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell
> whether Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong
> track, whether he is deluded or has got part of the message which may
> lead him to the whole truth."
>
> To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American,
> latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological
> revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel. It
> involves Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest
> [Weatherbee] who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the
> younger priest [Curl]." (More Conversations, p. 48)
>
> I guess you could expand the original question about priests to
> consider Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's
> novels. Val would be one to consider for sure. And I would add
> Lonnie from The Moviegoer, along with Fr. Smith and Percival. I'm
> not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG in with the Fr. Curl type; it
> seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job with Jamie's baptism --
> but I can't remember whether he appears earlier.
>
> --Jonathan
>
>
> On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:
>
> You're right, Episcopalian is the American term. For what it's
worth,
> chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany desk
> with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes." Both
> Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy
> made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't have
> the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's rant:
>
> How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and
at
> the same
> time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How impatient!
> How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How pleasure-loving!
> How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have
more
> than any
> other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so selfish
> and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I
cannot
> believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with shame.
> Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more and
> more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do you
> hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and thank
> God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most generous
> people on earth are so unhappy?"
>
> He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't that
> his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The
question
> beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is
a
> good one.
> It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can
Val
> from Last
> Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith?
> --Rhonda
> The best lack all convictions, while the worst
> Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
>
>
> >From: "Jonathan Potter" <jdp AT scn.org>
> >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> >< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org> >
> >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> ><percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700
> >
> >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, grabbing
> >his
> >arm) was Roman Catholic. It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm
> >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was
> >Anglican/Episcopalian.
> >
> >Jonathan Potter
> >Spokane WA
> >
> >
> >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com
> <mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> > wrote:
> > >
> > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and
> >acts
> > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second
> >was
> > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of
Americans is
> > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy
> >face?
> > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but
> >he's
> > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is
paying
> >attention
> > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him
the
> important
> > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are Anglican
> >(as
> > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot).
> > >
> > > --Rhonda
> > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst
> > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: <Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com>
> > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
> > > >< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > >To: <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
> > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700
> > > >
> > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second
Coming.
> I don't
> > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage Will
> > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come
> > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the
extreme
> > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously
> > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community. The second was an
> > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his
final,
> > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver." I found
> > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a solidly
> > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion,
an
> effective
> > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms
> >are
> > > >hilarious), and a touching love story. Not easy to pull
off. It
> > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to a
> > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey
> flourishes
> > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward.
> >Basically,
> > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head.
I also
> > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after leaving
> > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before.
> > > >
> > > >Peace.
> > > >
> > > >________________________________
> > > >
> > > >From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve
> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM
> > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to see
> > > >the responses you get!
> > > >
> > > >Steven L. Dye, MA
> > > >Director
> > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc.
> > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338
> > > >Lexington, KY 40511
> > > >
> > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > >From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
> <mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org> ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich
> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM
> > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >________________________________
> > > >
> > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye AT bluegrass.org ]
> > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM
> > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
> > > >
> > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels? Is
> > > >there any common thread?
> > > >
> > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest? The role grows into a
main
> > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith. There must
> > > >be a purpose for these priests.
> > > >
> > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic
Percy
> > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic.
> > > >
> > > >Rich Gray
> > >
> > >
> > > >--
> > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at
> > > >https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> > > >
> > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at
http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> > >
> > >
_________________________________________________________________
> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's
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> > >
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> > >
> > > --
> > > An archive of all list discussion is available at
> > > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> > >
> > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at
http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
> > >
>
>
> >--
> >An archive of all list discussion is available at
> > https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
> <https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/>
> >
> >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
> --
> An archive of all list discussion is available at
> https://lists.ibiblio.org/sympa/arc/percy-l/
>
> Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>
>
>
>



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Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy

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