Percy-L: Literary, Religious, Scientific, and Philosophical Discussion of Walker Percy

["Jonathan Potter" <jdp AT scn.org>]

In Pilgrim in the Ruins, Jay Tolson discusses the Episcopalian factor in The Second Coming:

 

"Put positively, Episcopalianism is Catholicism withouth absolutism; put negatively, it is Catholicism without spine, invertebrate Catholicism.  Yet here enters the complexity of Percy as a novelist:  he does not judge Barrett's religion as a lesser thing.  In fact, Percy's novel seems generously to imply that the fuzzy accommodationism of the Episcopal communion may have something more to recommend it than the principled dogmatism of his own church.  Not that Percy believes this.  (Percy, one might say, is to Will barrett what Catholicism is to Episcopalianism.)  But as a novelist, Percy cuts against his own grain, against the bias of his own belief, in order to play with possibilities beyond his knowing.  This constitutes the dialectical, or dialogic, aspect of his fiction, and it is one reason why his novels are sometimes accused of being unresolved."  (p. 425)

 

On 4/10/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:

Rich--

I hadn't thought of that scene from MG, but, thinking of it now, I agree
with your assessment. Particularly when I think of Lonnie's presence. And,
regarding the presence of grace, the moment near the end of the novel, when
the man comes out of the church on Ash Wednesday, is another one of those
moments of potential grace.

By the way, I'm certain Weatherbee is Episcopalian--as priests, they, too,
are at times called "Father." It's one of those holdovers from Catholicism
and the Anglican church's odd beginning.

--Rhonda
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats


>From: "Gray, Rich" <RGray AT montreat.edu>
>Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
><percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:56:23 -0400
>
>Rhonda and Jonathan,
>
>I have been away for several days while you have been working on the
>question of priests in Percy, especially Fr. Weatherby.  A useful
>conversation.
>
>As a protestant reader, I rely on Catholics or protestants with more
>insight than I, to figure out how priests work in Percy's novels.
>
>I have assumed that Weatherby is Catholic by being a "Father."  Him
>substituting for Jack could be due to Jack's ecumenism coupled with Jack
>deferring to the institution's residents.
>
>Weatherby appreciates the Christian gospel that has been believed and
>practiced for centuries.  Jack Curl seems not to have this ancient-based
>theology.  His beliefs are sociological.
>
>Jonathan's term "the Percyan scheme of things" is what interests me.  I
>think Percy has a priestly character or priestly function in every novel.
>For example, Binx goes to Mass with his step-family -- an event at which a
>priest oversees the giving of blessing .  You can use a priest to show the
>presence of grace, whereas without a priest, you must use symbolic
>settings, characters praying, characters talking about their faith, and
>scripture quoted or alluded to.
>
>How does this sound?
>
>Rich
>
>       -----Original Message-----
>       From: Jonathan Potter [mailto:jdp AT scn.org]
>       Sent: Sun 4/9/2006 7:24 PM
>       To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
>       Cc:
>       Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>
>
>       You're absolutely right.  I guess it just seemed like Fr. Weatherbee ought
>to be RC in the Percyan scheme of things.
>
>       I couldn't find a discussion of their being episcopalians in the two
>collections of interviews, but I did find one reference, where the
>interviewer, Peggy Castex, remarks that sometimes it's hard to tell whether
>Percy's protagonist "is on the right track or the wrong track, whether he
>is deluded or has got part of the message which may lead him to the whole
>truth."
>
>       To which Percy replies: "You ought to know as a displaced American,
>latterday French lady that a writer cannot get away with theological
>revelations.... Of course the key is at the end of the novel.  It involves
>Will's relationship with Allie and the the nutty old priest [Weatherbee]
>who is out of his mind, but may be saner than the younger priest [Curl]."
>(More Conversations, p. 48)
>
>       I guess you could expand the original question about priests to consider
>Catholics and/or other believers that appear in Percy's novels.  Val would
>be one to consider for sure.  And I would add Lonnie from The Moviegoer,
>along with Fr. Smith and Percival.  I'm not sure I'd lump Fr. Boomer in LG
>in with the Fr. Curl type; it seems to me he does a pretty serviceable job
>with Jamie's baptism -- but I can't remember whether he appears earlier.
>
>       --Jonathan
>
>
>       On 4/9/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL <rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> wrote:
>
>               You're right, Episcopalian is the American term.  For what it's worth,
>               chapter 12 begins, "Father Weatherbee sat behind Jack Curl's mahogany
>desk
>               with its collection of Russian ikons and bleeding Mexican crucifixes."
>Both
>               Weatherbee and Curl are Episcopalian. What I can't remember is why Percy
>               made them Episcopalian. He discusses it in an interview, but I don't have
>               the time to dig it up. While I'm here in chapter 12, Fr. Weatherbee's
>rant:
>
>               How can we be the best earest most generous people on earth, and at the
>same
>               time so unhappy? How harsh everyone is here! How restless! How impatient!
>               How worried! How sarcastic! How unhappy! How hateful! How
>pleasure-loving!
>               How lascivious! Above all, how selfish! Why is it that we have more than
>any
>               other people, are more generous with what we have, and yet are so selfish
>               and unhappy? Why do we think of hothing but our own pleasure? I cannot
>               believe my eyes at what I see on television. It makes me blush with
>shame.
>               Did you know that pleasure-seeking leads to cruelty? That is why more and
>               more people beat their children. Children interfere with pleasure. Do you
>               hate children? Why can't we be grateful for our great blessings and thank
>               God? . . . Why is it that Americans who are the best dearest most
>generous
>               people on earth are so unhappy?"
>
>               He's definitely in the same vein as Father Smith. And Boomer (wasn't that
>               his name?) is Last Gentleman is of the Jack Curl type. The question
>               beginning of this line of thought, regarding Percy's priests, is a good
>one.
>               It looks like he's working from two types--my question is, can Val from
>Last
>               Gentleman be grouped with Frs. Weatherbee and Smith?
>               --Rhonda
>               The best lack all convictions, while the worst
>               Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
>
>
>               >From: "Jonathan Potter" < jdp AT scn.org>
>               >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>               >< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org <mailto:percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org> >
>               >To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>               >< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>               >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>               >Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 10:02:24 -0700
>               >
>               >I thought Fr. Weatherbee (the priest Will questions at the end, grabbing
>               >his
>               >arm) was Roman Catholic.  It's been awhile since I've read it, but I'm
>               >pretty sure it was just the priest earlier in the book that was
>               >Anglican/Episcopalian.
>               >
>               >Jonathan Potter
>               >Spokane WA
>               >
>               >
>               >On 4/8/06, RHONDA MCDONNELL < rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com
><mailto:rhonda_mcdonnell AT msn.com> > wrote:
>               > >
>               > > wasn't the first one you mention the guy that wore the jumpsuits and
>               >acts
>               > > more like a building super than a priest? Jack Curl maybe? The second
>               >was
>               > > Fr. Weatherbee, whose rant regarding the behavior of Americans is
>               > > genius--wasn't the quote something about his silly (or simple), holy
>               >face?
>               > > Weatherbee is definitely linked to Fr. Smith. He seems to be daft but
>               >he's
>               > > really the one that's onto something that no one else is paying
>               >attention
>               > > to. He knows the truth of things. That's why Will asks him the
>important
>               > > questions. Worth noting is that the priests in 2nd Coming are
>Anglican
>               >(as
>               > > is the priest Lance is named for in Lancelot).
>               > >
>               > > --Rhonda
>               > > The best lack all convictions, while the worst
>               > > Are full of passionate intensity. -- WB Yeats
>               > >
>               > >
>               > > >From: <Robert_Pauley AT oxy.com>
>               > > >Reply-To: "Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion"
>               > > >< percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org>
>               > > >To: <percy-l AT lists.ibiblio.org >
>               > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>               > > >Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:23:07 -0700
>               > > >
>               > > >A couple of priests played pivotal roles in The Second Coming.  I
>don't
>               > > >recall his name, but the parish priest always trying to encourage
>Will
>               > > >Barrett to join his church's men's group outings and otherwise come
>               > > >"into the fold" was one, and represented the kind the extreme
>               > > >earnestness which Percy, or at least Barrett, found simultaneously
>               > > >cloying and yet not unimportant to a community.  The second was an
>               > > >older, former renegade missionary who jolts Will into his final,
>               > > >redemptive awareness that "a gift may be a sign of a giver."  I
>found
>               > > >this Percy novel to be his most accomplished and accessible: a
>solidly
>               > > >grounded meditation on suburban malaise and self-delusion, an
>effective
>               > > >and prescient social satire (Will's daughter's "new-age" enthusiasms
>               >are
>               > > >hilarious), and a touching love story.  Not easy to pull off.  It
>               > > >tracked a character straight through from the impulse to suicide to
>a
>               > > >saving awareness without ever resorting to the kind of dopey
>flourishes
>               > > >of so many other social satires of the time - and afterward.
>               >Basically,
>               > > >Will Barrett loses his mind without ever losing his head.  I also
>               > > >appreciated the fact that it followed up on Will Barrett after
>leaving
>               > > >him off in a Santa Fe wasteland so many years before.
>               > > >
>               > > >Peace.
>               > > >
>               > > >________________________________
>               > > >
>               > > >From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
>               > > >[mailto:percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org ] On Behalf Of Dye, Steve
>               > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 7:35 AM
>               > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
>               > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>               > > >
>               > > >
>               > > >You are asking a very loaded question - it will be interesting to
>see
>               > > >the responses you get!
>               > > >
>               > > >Steven L. Dye, MA
>               > > >Director
>               > > >Bluegrass MH-MR Board, Inc.
>               > > >1500 Leestown Road, Suite 338
>               > > >Lexington, KY 40511
>               > > >
>               > > >-----Original Message-----
>               > > >From: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
>               > > >[mailto: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org
><mailto: percy-l-bounces AT lists.ibiblio.org> ] On Behalf Of Gray, Rich
>               > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 10:31 AM
>               > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
>               > > >Subject: Re: [percy-l] LITR
>               > > >
>               > > >
>               > > >
>               > > >________________________________
>               > > >
>               > > >From: Dye, Steve [mailto:sldye AT bluegrass.org ]
>               > > >Sent: Thursday, April 06, 2006 9:43 AM
>               > > >To: Percy-L: Literary and Philosophical Discussion
>               > > >
>               > > >Have any of you considered the role of priests in Percy's novels?
>Is
>               > > >there any common thread?
>               > > >
>               > > >In The Moviegoer is there a priest?  The role grows into a main
>               > > >character in The Thanatos Syndrome, Father Reynaldo Smith.  There
>must
>               > > >be a purpose for these priests.
>               > > >
>               > > >As a Protestant Christian, I would like to know if Catholic Percy
>               > > >readers see any of these priests as realistic.
>               > > >
>               > > >Rich Gray
>               > >
>               > >
>               > > >--
>               > > >An archive of all list discussion is available at
>               > > >http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/
>               > > >
>               > > >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>               > >
>               > > _________________________________________________________________
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>               > >
>               > > Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>               > >
>
>
>               >--
>               >An archive of all list discussion is available at
>               > http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/
>< http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/>
>               >
>               >Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>
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> http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/percy-l/
>
>               Visit the Walker Percy Project at http://www.ibiblio.org/wpercy
>
>
>


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>
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