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  • From: "Charles Rhora" <rhoras@nuttrees.com>
  • To: "'nafex mailing list at ibiblio'" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [nafex] Seedling trees
  • Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 16:42:25 -0500

Excellent!

Charles Rhora.

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Hinds
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 12:01 PM
To: Idell Weydemeyer; nafex mailing list at ibiblio
Subject: Re: [nafex] Seedling trees

On 11/12/2012 3:24 PM, Idell Weydemeyer wrote:
> If someone can tell me what year or issue, we have members who are
> giving awy their magazines so can probably get one for you.
>
> Idell Weydemeyer

*California Rare Fruit Growers Yearbook* for 1973

The original name of the article was "*Indications of Metabolic Imbalance in
Grafted Trees and their Fruit*" (although it might have been "*Indications
of Metabolic Imbalance in Budded/Grafted Trees*" but the CRFG lost their
archives due to a fire or a flood and the last time I noticed the article
had been renamed to "*The Need to Develop Good, True Seedling Fruit
Tree**Strains*" or something similar). However: I noticed today that the
crfg.org website has been reorganized to link to articles about a particular
variety, which is obviously not the case, and my friend Paul Thomson (the
CRFG's founder) died a few years ago.

In any case, my article presented biological principles and concrete
evidence to the effect that, while spliced together tree parts may continue
to stay alive, bear fruit and resolve a particular issue (such as the
relative inability of sweet citrus roots to extract sufficient iron from
desert soils, or the susceptibility of Key Lime Roots to Gummosis as
compared to Macrophilia rootstock), alternative solutions exist for these
problems that do not create irresolvable metabolic conflicts (which the head
scientist at the USDA's main Experimental Station at Beltsville, Maryland
confirmed in a letter to me at the time).

But the principle point of my article was to call for:

1.- Research directed at determining what (if any) significant differences
exist between natural and composite fruit trees (which requires
understanding which parameters should be measured and how);

2.- How significant are whatever differences are discovered (which would
require collecting health and performance data for comparable sets of living
organisms fed the fruit from comparable varieties of both types of trees),
and

3.- The development of relatively stable strains of high quality,
productive, disease resistant, seedling fruit tree crops, adapted to a
variety of climate and soil types.

At the time, I was told "we don't have the genetic competence for it and it
would take to long. That was in 1973. My answer at the time was THEN START
NOW!

But it wasn't done. Is that negligent? A LOT, IMO.

Now, the fact that ALL new fruit varieties are the result of chance
seedlings or intentional crosses using conventional and evolutionarily
tested natural biological processes (I am not going to discuss transgenic
crops at this time). All anyone has to do is plant the best ones, over and
over. That's what your mothers and father did, BTW.
That's where each and every one of came from (unless we've got a few clones
subscribed to nafex).

Douglas Hinds

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rhora
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 12:46 PM
> To: 'John McCuan'; 'nafex mailing list at ibiblio'
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Seedling trees
>
> I agree with Mr. Hinds, in prospective and quotes, not only to apple
> trees, but to any kind of tree, whether it be for food production or
> ornamental in type. My experience with growing trees from seeds spans
> over more than 40 plus years. I also had belonged to the California
> Rare Fruit Growers Association for many years, but due to water
> damage, loss most of my articles, including years books. I only have
> the book they put out on paw paw's in my collection. I would be
> interested in someone who is presently a member of this organization
> to try and obtain a copy of the same article that Mr. Hinds mentioned.
> I am in the nursery business, and have orchards of edible nut pine
> trees, deciduous edible nut trees, minor fruits, and rare and unusual
> trees, as well as accessories.
> My climatic zone is 4 (temperatures down to -35 degrees F.) in the winter.
>
> Charles Rhora,
> Rhora's Nut Farm & Nursery.
>
> www.nuttrees.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of John McCuan
> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2012 1:38 PM
> To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: [nafex] Seedling trees
>
>
> I find this topic very interesting. How would I find more information
> on the benefits of seedling trees?
>
> Intuitively, it makes sense to me -
>
> Melinda McCuan
>
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Fwd: Johny A. (Douglas Hinds)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2012 14:46:48 -0600
> From: Douglas Hinds <cedecor@gmx.net>
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Fwd: Johny A.
> To: nafex mailing list at ibiblio <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
> Cc: Alan Haigh <alandhaigh@gmail.com>
> Message-ID: <50A00EB8.809@gmx.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> On 11/11/2012 10:29 AM, Alan Haigh wrote:
>> From: Alan Haigh<alandhaigh@gmail.com>
>> Date: Sun, Nov 11, 2012 at 9:59 AM
>> Subject: Johny A.
>> To:nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>>>> That isn't to take away from Johnny. He was an apple authority and
>>>> went
>>> around the country helping folks and propagated popular varieties by
> grafting.
>> Actually, according to Pollan's book, Johny thought grafting was
>> devil's work and that God wanted trees to grow just as they were from
> seed.
> God and Johnny aren't the only ones. Count me in on that two.
>
> How important is it to me? I left the USA due to the relative dearth
> of fruit from seedling trees there in 1974 and I still don't eat fruit
> from trees that _aren't_ on their own roots. In fact, fruit from
> seedling trees is the principle staple food of my diet and at 70, I
> have not yet begun to go downhill.
>
> An article explaining the reasons why was published in the *1973
> California Rare Fruit Growers Yearbook* (the year before I left).
> Steve Diver asked for for a copy and I e-mailed it to him about 12
> years ago. (If Steve is on nafex I'd appreciate being sent a copy,
> since I don't have it on hand at this time. And if not, Lawrence - I
> assume you have his current contact data, and I hope you can do me the
favor of sending this on to him).
>
> Grafting is unnecessary and creates more problems than it solves.
> Logically, those subscribing to organic, biological, alternative,
> sustainable and ecological (as well as permaculture and biodynamic)
> agriculture would recognize the importance of respecting and
> maintaining the integrity of the individual organism as a fundamental
> and unalterable principle, yet no movement (that I'm aware of) has
> taken up the cause and I think I (along with other sympathetic
> individuals and
> groups) need to do something about that. (It's on the agenda we've
> established with CUCBA, our local Agricultural, Biological,
> Environmental and Animal Sciences Faculty) <www.cucba.udg.mx> and as
> time and funding permit, we will be moving ahead with it.
>
> That's all for now, but I can elaborate further if this post generates
> any interest to that effect.
>
> Douglas Hinds,
>
> Director General
> Centro para el Desarrollo Comunitario y Rural, A.C.
>
> Coordinator
> Alianza para la Responsibilidad Ecologica y Social en el Desarrollo
> (CUCBA, FEPRJ, CNC Jalisco, CeDeCoR A.C.)
>
> Chair
> Organic Pineapple Working Group
> International Society for Horticultural Science
>
> Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>

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