North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

["Alan Haigh" <alandhaigh@gmail.com>]

I guess the growing season is definately over, this debate seems awfully far removed from fruit exploration although I do find it mildly interesting.  Keep going, my score card has Febreze innocuous up by one and a half points over Febreze dangerous.  Can someone tell me what the hell Febreze is, oh nevernind it really doesn't matter, it doesn't sound like the kind of product I'd purchase anyway- I'm guessing it's an air freshener.  Real gardeners don't use these things, do they?  I just recently discovered that soap is used for something other than killing aphids.

On Nov 18, 2007 6:09 PM, <nafex-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Re false statement in Vol. 58, Issue 13-? None found
     (Michael Nave)
  2. Re: Snopes.com (Michael Nave)
  3. Re: Febreze nontoxic?-of course not (Scott Williamson)
  4. Febreze toxicity (Michele Stanton)
  5. Re: Febreze nontoxic?-of course not (Sonja & Raymond Barker)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:04:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Nave <jmichaelnave@yahoo.com >
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Re false statement in Vol. 58, Issue 13-? None
       found
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: < 621380.75255.qm@web50901.mail.re2.yahoo.com">621380.75255.qm@web50901.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

No, there was no false statement. Febreze is toxic and
can harm animals.

Next time you decide to look up something on scopes,
you may want to actually read what they say.

With respect to birds, snopes quotes P&G which admits
that you should not place birds in a cage that has
just been sprayed.

With respect to dogs and cats, the ASPCA considers
febreze safe "WHEN USED AS DIRECTED." I would also
note that every chemical poison used for insect
control is also safe when used as directed. That says
nothing about whether the product is otherwise
dangerous.

The problem with febreze, particularly in its earlier
years, is that people did not understand that it is
toxic and were not using it as directed. They were
spraying it in bird cages while the birds were there
and directly sparing it on dogs once or twice a day.
After the internet information became public, more
people became aware of the dangers posed by misusing
febreze and responsible veterinarians who were
familiar with the problem warned their clients not to
misuse it, especially with birds.


--- Jim Fruth <jfruth@tds.net > wrote:

>     The statement, "Febreze is poisonous. It will
> kill birds, dogs, cats
> and just about anything else if used in sufficient
> concentration," is an (false) Urban Legend  Read
> what Snopes.com has to say
> about it.
>
> http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/febreze.asp
>
> Jim Fruth
> Brambleberry Farm
> Pequot Lakes, MN  56472
> For jams, jellies & syrups:
> www.bberryfarm.com
> (877)265-6856 [Store]
> (218)831-7018 [My Cell]
>
> _______________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 13:10:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Nave <jmichaelnave@yahoo.com >
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Snopes.com
To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: < 685356.85435.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com">685356.85435.qm@web50905.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Snopes is just a married couple here in California,
David and Barbara Mikkelson. They like researching
things. They have no more ability to evaluate things
they aren't trained in than anyone else. Mostly they
are just a clearing house for compiling information,
some of it accurate, some of it not.

Of course if you have trouble thinking for yourself,
snopes is always willing to give you their opinion.


--- "William C. Garthright" < billg@inebraska.com>
wrote:

>
> >     The statement, "Febreze is poisonous. It will
> kill birds, dogs, cats and just about anything else
> if used in sufficient concentration," is an (false)
> Urban Legend.  Read what Snopes.com has to say about
> it.
> >
> >
> http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/febreze.asp
> >
>
>
> Where would we be without Snopes.com? In this age of
> email, I'm always
> checking with them to see what's real and what's
> not. After all, you
> just never know. Talk about a useful Internet site!
>
> Thanks for the link, Jim.
>
> Bill
> Lincoln, NE
>
> --
>


     ____________________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:05:21 -0500
From: "Scott Williamson" <ScottW@acespower.com >
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID:
       < 3B47C582E362004AB09538FF5DD54CF60ACFE9BB@acesex01.acespower.com">3B47C582E362004AB09538FF5DD54CF60ACFE9BB@acesex01.acespower.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset="us-ascii"

I agree and I would also add that the statement 'there is no scientific
evidence that XXX product is harmful'  does not mean the product is 100%
safe, even though that is what is normally implied when someone makes
that claim.  It's just as accurate in most cases to say 'there is no
scientific evidence that XXX product is safe'.


-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Olenio
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:03 PM
To: 'North American Fruit Explorers'
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not

Hi,

Hello,

Just because national manufacturers give bizarrely specific instructions
and
warnings does not mean it is toxic.  It means that 80% of the population
has
zero common sense and access to a lawyer.

Toasters come with warnings not to immerse the toaster in your bathtub
while
bathing and making toast.  Does that mean it is a safety hazard?  Nope,
it
means a lot of people are stupid.

Those instructions and warning are written for the "lowest common
denominator" of society and to protect the manufacturer from whackos.

Sure, some things need to be handled safely, but most of the warnings
have
nothing to do with safety but with people who have no common sense,
and/or a
desire to sue.

Later,
Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael Nave
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:53 PM
To: North American Fruit Explorers
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not

Of course febreze is toxic. That's why P&G, the
manufacturer, gives very specific instructions not to
use it except as they direct. P&G and a natl
veterinarians organization both caution not to place
birds in a cage after spraying with febreze. You must
allow time for the fumes to dissipate. If you don't,
birds may be harmed. One of the ingredients is zinc
chloride. Here's the MSDS for zinc chloride:

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/z2280.htm

Note the language "DANGER! CORROSIVE. CAUSES BURNS TO
ANY AREA OF CONTACT. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED.
AFFECTS THE CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM."

Now the zinc chloride used in febreze is small
concentration, but if you misuse febreze and many many
pet owners do, you can harm pets. There are hundreds
of people who have reported illness or death caused by
overusing febreze. I am familiar with many bird owners
whose birds have had health problems associated with
febreze. Has a scientific lab proved that deaths were
caused by febreze? No. But when you have dozens of
animals that were perfectly healthy and their owners
admit to misusing febreze, and there is no evidence
for any other cause, the resulting conclusion is
fairly easy to make, unless you work for P&G. And even
P&G has bent over backwards to tell people not to
misuses febreze. If it wasn't toxic, they wouldn't
bother.

And if you still think that febreze is nontoxic, why
don't you perform a simple test? Spray yourself with
febreze twice a day for a month. Then tell us how you
feel. That's what some people were doing with their
dogs. The dogs got sick.


--- Lucky Pittman < lucky.pittman@murraystate.edu>
wrote:

> At 11:25 PM 11/13/2007, you wrote:
> >Febreze is poisonous. It will kill birds, dogs,
> cats
> >and just about anything else if used in sufficient
> >concentration.
>
> Urban/Internet myth.
> There have been no confirmed cases of Febreze
> causing death in any
> pet - bird, cat, or dog.
> "Contrary to rumors circulating on the Internet
> alleging that Febreze
> causes serious illness or death in pets, veterinary
> toxicology
> experts at the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center
> regard Febreze
> fabric freshener products to be safe for use in
> households with pets.
> As with any product, it is important that you always
> follow label
> instructions for use. However, should your cat
> accidentally come into
> contact with Febreze when it is still wet, we would
> not anticipate
> problems beyond mild skin irritation (which can
> occur with any
> product in animals with sensitive skin) or minor
> stomach upset, if it
> is ingested."
>
> However, even water will kill all the above animals
> - and humans - if
> used in sufficient concentration.
>
>
> Louis L. "Lucky" Pittman, Jr., DVM
> Veterinary Pathologist/ Dept. Chairman
> Murray St. Univ.-Breathitt Veterinary Ctr.
> Hopkinsville, KY
>
> _______________________________________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
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________________________________________________________________________
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------------------------

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NOTICE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole and confidential use of the intended recipients and may contain proprietary and/or confidential information which may be privileged or otherwise protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and delete the original message from your computer system and destroy any copies of the message as well as any attachments and notify me immediately at (317) 344-7000.



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 17:39:03 -0500
From: "Michele Stanton" <6ducks@gmail.com>
Subject: [NAFEX] Febreze toxicity
To: nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
Message-ID:
       <f8b611550711181439s7341ebdcy49416c1249c19e8b@mail.gmail.com">f8b611550711181439s7341ebdcy49416c1249c19e8b@mail.gmail.com >
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

The intent of my original mail was simply to see if anyone else had
noticed if Febreze appeared to mask insect pheromones, thus preventing
hordes of Asian lady beetles from calling each other to party inside
the house. I didn't spray it on the insects, just the door frame. Yes,
that means I didn't follow label directions.........

Proctor and Gamble has posted its MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet)
for Febreze on line.
Here's the link:
http://www.pg.com/content/pdf/01_about_pg/msds/fabric_and_homecare/air_care/Febreze_Air_Effects.pdf

On my bottle, the first ingredient is the odor masker, then water, and
then perfume, next propellent, etc.  The ingredients are listed
euphemistically since Febreze's 'secret' is a trade secret.  THe
odor-masking compound is supposedly a cyclodextrin, a sugar-type
compound also used in foods. The propellent is supposed to be ethanol.

Febreze has an LD50 of >5,000, which means that in case of acute
exposure, it's considered 'virtually non-toxic' if ingested.
The toxicology statement lists no known carcinogenic effects, and no
known chronic effects.  OF course, an LD50 is not a complete list of
possible adverse effects.  But then, we're back to the issue of
reading and following directions.........

Michele Stanton
Disclaimer: Neither I nor anyone in my family works for P&G.


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2007 15:09:10 -0800
From: "Sonja & Raymond Barker" <orchard1@telus.net>
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" < nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Message-ID: <001101c82a38$083e3990$43efe8d8@ethicalgrower>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
       reply-type=original

i think the XXX product should be banned....when my mother sprayed it in the
family room a couple of years back the smell gave me allergies for months
and she could not use the room for a long time...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Williamson" <ScottW@acespower.com>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org >
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not


>I agree and I would also add that the statement 'there is no scientific
> evidence that XXX product is harmful'  does not mean the product is 100%
> safe, even though that is what is normally implied when someone makes
> that claim.  It's just as accurate in most cases to say 'there is no
> scientific evidence that XXX product is safe'.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org ] On Behalf Of Thomas Olenio
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 4:03 PM
> To: 'North American Fruit Explorers'
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
>
> Hi,
>
> Hello,
>
> Just because national manufacturers give bizarrely specific instructions
> and
> warnings does not mean it is toxic.  It means that 80% of the population
> has
> zero common sense and access to a lawyer.
>
> Toasters come with warnings not to immerse the toaster in your bathtub
> while
> bathing and making toast.  Does that mean it is a safety hazard?  Nope,
> it
> means a lot of people are stupid.
>
> Those instructions and warning are written for the "lowest common
> denominator" of society and to protect the manufacturer from whackos.
>
> Sure, some things need to be handled safely, but most of the warnings
> have
> nothing to do with safety but with people who have no common sense,
> and/or a
> desire to sue.
>
> Later,
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
> [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Michael Nave
> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 3:53 PM
> To: North American Fruit Explorers
> Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Febreze nontoxic?-of course not
>
> Of course febreze is toxic. That's why P&G, the
> manufacturer, gives very specific instructions not to
> use it except as they direct. P&G and a natl
> veterinarians organization both caution not to place
> birds in a cage after spraying with febreze. You must
> allow time for the fumes to dissipate. If you don't,
> birds may be harmed. One of the ingredients is zinc
> chloride. Here's the MSDS for zinc chloride:
>
> http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/z2280.htm
>
> Note the language "DANGER! CORROSIVE. CAUSES BURNS TO
> ANY AREA OF CONTACT. HARMFUL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED.
> AFFECTS THE CARDIOVASCULAR SYSTEM."
>
> Now the zinc chloride used in febreze is small
> concentration, but if you misuse febreze and many many
> pet owners do, you can harm pets. There are hundreds
> of people who have reported illness or death caused by
> overusing febreze. I am familiar with many bird owners
> whose birds have had health problems associated with
> febreze. Has a scientific lab proved that deaths were
> caused by febreze? No. But when you have dozens of
> animals that were perfectly healthy and their owners
> admit to misusing febreze, and there is no evidence
> for any other cause, the resulting conclusion is
> fairly easy to make, unless you work for P&G. And even
> P&G has bent over backwards to tell people not to
> misuses febreze. If it wasn't toxic, they wouldn't
> bother.
>
> And if you still think that febreze is nontoxic, why
> don't you perform a simple test? Spray yourself with
> febreze twice a day for a month. Then tell us how you
> feel. That's what some people were doing with their
> dogs. The dogs got sick.
>
>
> --- Lucky Pittman < lucky.pittman@murraystate.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> At 11:25 PM 11/13/2007, you wrote:
>> >Febreze is poisonous. It will kill birds, dogs,
>> cats
>> >and just about anything else if used in sufficient
>> >concentration.
>>
>> Urban/Internet myth.
>> There have been no confirmed cases of Febreze
>> causing death in any
>> pet - bird, cat, or dog.
>> "Contrary to rumors circulating on the Internet
>> alleging that Febreze
>> causes serious illness or death in pets, veterinary
>> toxicology
>> experts at the ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center
>> regard Febreze
>> fabric freshener products to be safe for use in
>> households with pets.
>> As with any product, it is important that you always
>> follow label
>> instructions for use. However, should your cat
>> accidentally come into
>> contact with Febreze when it is still wet, we would
>> not anticipate
>> problems beyond mild skin irritation (which can
>> occur with any
>> product in animals with sensitive skin) or minor
>> stomach upset, if it
>> is ingested."
>>
>> However, even water will kill all the above animals
>> - and humans - if
>> used in sufficient concentration.
>>
>>
>> Louis L. "Lucky" Pittman, Jr., DVM
>> Veterinary Pathologist/ Dept. Chairman
>> Murray St. Univ.-Breathitt Veterinary Ctr.
>> Hopkinsville, KY
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nafex mailing list
>> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>>
>> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not
>> allowed.
>> This includes distribution on other email lists or
>> reproduction on web sites.
>> Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't
>> claim you have permission!
>>
>> **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
>> Posts from email addresses that are not subscribed
>> are discarded.
>> No exceptions.
>> ----
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, go to the bottom of
>> this page (also can be used to change other email
>> options):
>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/nafex
>>
>> File attachments are NOT stripped by this list.
>> TAKE STEPS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM COMPUTER
>> VIRUSES!
>> Please do not send binary files.
>> Use plain text ONLY in emails!
>>
>> NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/
>>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> ________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> _______________________________________________
> nafex mailing list
> nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>
> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web
> sites.
> Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
> permission!
>
> **YOU MUST BE SUBSCRIBED TO POST!**
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>
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>
> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
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>
> ------------------------
>
> Think before you print
>
> NOTICE: This email message and any attachments are for the sole and
> confidential use of the intended recipients and may contain proprietary
> and/or confidential information which may be privileged or otherwise
> protected from disclosure. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended
> recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and delete the
> original message from your computer system and destroy any copies of the
> message as well as any attachments and notify me immediately at (317)
> 344-7000.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nafex mailing list
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>
> Reproduction of list messages or archives is not allowed.
> This includes distribution on other email lists or reproduction on web
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> Permission to reproduce is NEVER granted, so don't claim you have
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NAFEX web site:   http://www.nafex.org/


End of nafex Digest, Vol 58, Issue 25
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