North American Fruit Explorers mailing list at ibiblio

[Hans Brinkmann <hans-brinkmann@t-online.de>]

Hallo Mark and hallo Lon,

both of you described quite the same situation, we have at Europe:
Our patents for plants (Sortenschutz, cultivar-protection is our name) 
is given max. 25 and for trees also 30 years.
The majority of patents are made for ornamental plants only. Much less 
than 10% for fruits only.
E.g. no walnuts or chestnuts for fruit production are patented. Only 
some for forestry. The reason is clear...
Usually a patent holder is distributing scions for free to 
collectors/breeder, as Lon explained it well.
Officials in Germany are writing always: "You may propagate legally, a 
protected plant only for your own purpose".
As much as you like, but they talk about none-professionals. Some other 
Germans say: To make a gift is also possible.
Anyhow, this last sentence is not proved and may be wrong.
On the other hand, if a serious patent holder is claiming his right 
(EU), he really has large problems to prove it.
Highest courts sometimes do not give him right, because he could not 
prove it "for sure ".
If companies are trying to use illegally a patented plant, they usually 
are using the plant,
but they just rename it with a new name. This is done usually never with 
an apple, but this is done regularly with
ornamental plants like e.g. roses.
In general our patent-fees are probably higher than your US fees. We 
have to pay more than 5000$ per variety and the
applying procedure could be 5 to 7 years. After all the fee for the 
coming 25 years could be 100 till 1000 € per year.
In EU usually all offered patented plants must have a visible 
symbol/sentence to show it is patented.
If not, how could one know, it is patented?
If these nicely EU patented plants are exported to USA, each nursery may 
propagate and sell them.
And I am sure this is also true vice versa.
The absolute majority of plant cultivars are not patented, because from 
the financial aspect it is useless.
E.g. we Europeans do not know much about Pawpaw. We do not plant them 
almost at all.
One Italian breeder is trying to get a patented pawpaw variety 
registered. Since many years...
Finally, only the concerned EU- Department (in this case a German one) 
made a good profit.

The criminal international patents from the large Agricultural Concerns 
are discussed very controverse at EU
and are a complete different story.

ciao
Hans



Mark & Helen Angermayer schrieb:
> I read the archived patent discussion the group had a while back and 
> try to honor patents. Last spring I wanted to propagate for my own 
> use, or for family and friends the PRI releases "Enterprise" - aka. 
> Coop 30 and Williams Pride - Coop 23. I contacted Purdue Research 
> Foundation, assignee to the patents and explained my situation. Mark 
> (?) representative for the foundation,(can't remember his last name) 
> gave me an informal approval to propagate for my uses. He said if I 
> wanted I could donate any nominal propagation fees to my favorite 
> charity, given in name of Purdue Research Foundation, which was fine 
> with me.
> Conversely, I wanted to propagate some new peach releases from 
> Arkansas University. I contacted John Clark and he did not give me 
> approval. I had already taken a budgraft from one of their patented 
> trees. I had successfully grafted it on another tree. It didn't make 
> me feel very good to go out and knock it off.
> So it depends on the patent holder how much grace they allow.
> With regard to Pixie Crunch, it is listed on the Purdue site as Coop 
> 33. It's patent number is 13871.
> One thing more, sometimes nurseries are confused what is patented. I 
> see nurseries listing things and collecting fees for cultivars that 
> have expired patents. Or more commonly not listing some cultivars as 
> patented. Even Purdue, when I corresponded recently, wasn't aware 
> "Williams Pride" patent had expired. The rule for plant patents is 20 
> years from date the application is filed or 17 years from the issue of 
> patent, whichever is greater. That is, assuming the plant doesn't have 
> an international patent which lasts longer. Williams Pride has only a 
> US patent and expired on both counts.
> It's a bit frustrating to have to work hard to stay within the law. 
> From now on I am trying to stay away from plants under patent 
> protection. The old cultivars need to be kept alive anyway.
> Mark Angermayer
> Zone 5 Kansas
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Thomas Olenio <mailto:tolenio@sentex.net>
>     *To:* 'North American Fruit Explorers'
>     <mailto:nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2007 7:57 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [NAFEX] Pixie Crunch apple scionwood - Not
>
>     Hello,
>
>     You can do an online patent search to discover who holds a patent,
>     and their address.
>
>     http://www.uspto.gov/patft/
>
>     I had little luck in contacting the patent holder for Titania
>     blackcurrant. He had no idea how to handle a single individual, or
>     establish a straight forward royalty fee.
>
>     I just wanted to propagate a couple more bushes (for myself) from
>     the single plant I had purchased from a nursery. Having read all
>     the NAFEX posts on patents I thought I would try to honor the patent.
>
>     Possibly he was the exception. In my limited experience, patent
>     holders are interested in the large producers, not the individual
>     propagating for their own limited, personal use. I think we are
>     more of a bother than we are worth to them.
>
>     I am not saying to abuse a patent, just stating the realities I
>     ran into.
>
>     Later,
>
>     Tom
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>     *From:* nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org
>     [mailto:nafex-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] *On Behalf Of
>     *BekeeprTop@aol.com
>     *Sent:* Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:35 AM
>     *To:* nafex@lists.ibiblio.org
>     *Subject:* Re: [NAFEX] Pixie Crunch apple scionwood - Not
>
>     Someone inquiring about permission to propagate the patented Pixie
>     Crunch could ask if a standing agreement could be struck so any
>     NAFEX member can see where to send how much money for each
>     propagation. Put it on a new webpage. It sounds like multiple
>     people want to propagate this sweet apple; why can't one do it
>     once and get an agreement for all?
>
>     Charlie Paradise
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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