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  • From: Hans Brinkmann <hans-brinkmann@t-online.de>
  • To: North American Fruit Explorers <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
  • Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Aronia x Sorbus ; Sorbus domestica
  • Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 01:01:59 +0100

Hallo Mark,
From most but not all Sorbus crosses I have at least few fruits.
In general it takes really 4 to 6 years to bear fruits. Like eg. apples or pears too.
I grafted some on older S. aucuparia rootstock, to make it faster.
I have had the same thoughts like you:
This season, I start the first time to grow my own seedlings from these crosses.
I will inform you. I think the result must be very interesting. But I do not have any knowledge
about the possible result.

Yes, In future, I like to cross them with big size Crataegus and others...
A cross between Sorbus domestica and Pyrus must be too nice, but probably impossible.

Sorbus domestica is a "must" in the German Apple-wine. Not only for the taste.
Of course some Germans are producing also a pure domestica Snaps... but do not expect the taste too nice.

ciao
Hans Germany

Mark and Piper schrieb:
Hans,
The story on these interspecies crosses is not over. I have these questions:

Of the ones you grow, which ones have fruited for you?
How many seasons did it take until you got fruit? I have read it takes 7 to
10 years until first fruit for some of these crosses.
Do you grow any seedlings of these crosses? If so, are the next generation
true to the previous?
Are you thinking of doing any crosses yourself?

I am glad to hear Sorbus domestica finds use in apple wine. That is where I
would like to use them.

-Mark Lee, Seattle

----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Brinkmann" <hans-brinkmann@t-online.de>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 09, 2007 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Aronia x Sorbus ; Sorbus domestica


Hallo Mark,
nice to hear Sorbus domestica is growing in Seattle.
Your flavor description is very right and interesting.
Actually the fruits are absolute necessary for apple-wine production
and used
for cooking and fine cuisine like ice cream, backed fruits, marmalade...
Anyhow the fruits are looking very interesting and each seedling has
different ones.
E.g. the shape, the size, the color, the taste of the fruits...
Trees do not like acid soil.

ciao
hans brinkmann Germany

Mark and Piper schrieb:
Just for the record, I have some Sorbus domestica seedlings in my
garden.
They are 2 feet tall and 2 years old. I have tasted fruit from the
mother
tree. Not for everyone, but an intersting flavor, like a ripe Flemish
Beauty
pear with astringency.
-Mark Lee, Seattle


----- Original Message ----- From: "Hans Brinkmann" <hans-brinkmann@t-online.de>
To: "North American Fruit Explorers" <nafex@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 06, 2007 6:27 AM
Subject: Re: [NAFEX] Aronia x Sorbus ; Sorbus domestica



Hallo Lon,
people who are interested in S. domestica are very rare...
People who have such a nice homepage and experience like you are
extremely rare!!!
Regards also from Clive Simms from England!

Yes the astringency is lost at a special time by it selves. Anyhow this
astringency is also necessary and positive for the apple-wine
production. The fruits are used also more and more in the fine cuisine
cooking. Even as dessert and ice cream. The tree is very useful for
landscaping and environmental purposes.
The wood is really nice and very, very high priced because it is very
much used in music-instrument, expensive furniture and e.g. ruler
production; because the wood is not shrinking and expanding like other
wood! I try to send you an interesting photo directly to your e-mail
address.

The grafting is not secret at all, but I think in many countries this
Sorbus domestica is not known and people do not have any experience.
The rootstock can be Crataegus monog. or Sorbus domestica! Never try S.
aucuparia. But if you see my photo, you will understand, why I do never
recommend Crataegus... (1 m diameter timber-log)!
On S.domestica rootstock I graft usually in winter-days with heat but I
tried it also once with a 1,5 m high growing rootstock outside in early
spring with okulation and the new branch was growing additional 1 m the
same year. I may answer you more detailed directly. E.g. walnut
grafting is much less successful.

Only one nursery in Germany is selling two different varieties. I
collected some more selections. In future we should select also
different taste/astringency, different time of harvesting and different
growth of tree. This will be not too difficult, because the trees are
varying very much. Some fruits are like peas and some like little
pears or apples. We can give you - as Clive promised to you - any
scions (also other trees) and if you need, I could give you also very
small one year old bare root grafts. From most selections. If you need
special varieties I could graft them additionally this season for you.

ciao
hans







Lon J. Rombough schrieb:

I have a row of Sorbus domestica seedlings started from seed collected
from some of the trees at Luther Burbank's plantings in Sebastopol,
California. Mine are extremely astringent, but any bump or bruise
triggers something in the fruit that gets rid of the astringency very
quickly. A bruised fruit becomes edible within a few hours, though the
flavor keeps changing if it sits for a full day or more.
I once discussed this tree with the late Larry McGraw of Sheep Rock,
Oregon who had a number of old seedlings. Larry was the most avid
fruit explorer I've ever met. He said the wood is hard enough to dull
an ax very quickly, and he could only grow the trees from seed. He had
never been able to graft them successfully. That fits with what I have
experienced. I would be interested to know how they are propagated in
Germany.
=Lon Rombough
Grapes, writing, consulting, my book, *The Grape Grower, *at
http://www.bunchgrapes.com Winner of the Garden Writers Association
"Best Talent in Writing" award for 2003.
On Jan 5, 2007, at 2:46 PM, Hans Brinkmann wrote:

Hallo Matt,
in general all the Aronia x Sorbus x Hybrids are 2 to 5m tall.
All berries looking more like Sorbus berries, but each have different
size,
color, juice and taste.
Edible Sorbus aucuparia like e.g. Konzentra or Rossina or
Klosterneuburg
are important e.g for marmalade production in Europe since a long
time.
Aronia x Sorbus hybrids fruits are at http://www.biotaimi.fi/
Then go to Pihlaja and finally to Pihlaja kasvatus-ja hoito - ohje
Information after clicking the first Pihlaja photo.

Nice page about Shipova : http://www.ars-grin.gov/cor/cool/sorbo.html

Do you know Sorbus domestica? It has 2 - 3 cm apple- or pear-shape
fruits.
Some old trees in Germany have logs of more than 1 m in diameter.
The wood is one of the most highly priced wood in Germany.
Fruits are a must for the apple-wine-production.
We have some cultivars in Germany.


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